BadFiction – “The Indonesian Citizenship Myth” Thanks Longknife

Posted: 02/14/2010 by Lynn Dartez in Obmamaaaaa File

http://badfiction.typepad.com/badfiction/the-indonesian-citizenship-myth.html

The Indonesian Citizenship Myth

I have read this post in detail and must say, with all due respect, I disagree.  Some very important parts were left out, which I do not believe was intentional.  Thus, I would like to respond accordingly.

First, I am unsure as to where badfiction obtained the Indonesian laws, I’m unsure as to the dates, etc.  However, there are discrepancies.

Badfiction is correct in stating that if a woman married a foreign citizen they would have lost their U.S. citizenship status if married prior to September 22, 1922.  However, there is more to this, see 8 U.S.C. Section 1435(a)(2) which states “on or after September 22, 1922, a women who lost United States citizenship by marriage to an alien ineligible to citizenship…”  However, Indonesia also required Stanley Ann Dunham to relinquish her U.S. Citizenship, which is an affirmative act, therefore, Stanley Ann Dunham did not simply lose her U.S. Citizenship status by marriage alone.

Badfiction claims that a parent cannot expatriate a child’s U.S. citizenship, however, this is not correct.   See The Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952, Section 318(a)  “A former citizen of the United States expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents and who has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents may be naturalized upon filing a petition for naturalization before reaching age of twenty-five years and upon compliance with all requirements of the naturalization laws with the following exceptions:  (b) No former citizen of the United States, expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents shall be obliged to comply with the requirements of the immigration laws, if he has not not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents, and if he has come or shall come to the United States before reaching the age of twenty-five years.  (c) After his naturalization such person shall have the same citizenship status as if he had not been expatriated.”

Renewing an Indonesian Passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another Country.  Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian Passport when he traveled to Pakistan, that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first.  Remember, in 1981, Dunham was divorcing Soetoro in Hawaii and was not in Indonesia.  Obama/Soetoro admits to traveling to Indonesia first and then onto Pakistan.  Soetoro/Obama claims in his book “Dreams from my father” that he stopped in Indonesia to visit his mother.  But again, his mother was not in Indonesia, she was in Hawaii with Maya, divorcing Lolo Soetoro.  In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for  Barack H. Obama.

Despite the above however, Indonesia required Obama/Soetoro to do a bit more upon his 18th birthday.  In fact the Indonesian law gives until the age of 21.  Soetoro/Obama would have had to sign an Affidavit relinquishing his Indonesian citizenship and said Affidavit had to be sent to the Indonesian Government before reclaiming any U.S. citizenship he may have once held.

When it comes to the citizenship of  individuals in other countries, we are prevented from interfering, Hague Convention 1930. Speaking of Indonesia, during the late 60’s all the way up until 2006 Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship.  In 2006 they changed their laws to permit dual citizenship, however, Indonesia has had its battles with enforcing their new law permitting dual citizenship.

With this said, from the research we have done, it appears that Soetoro became an Indonesian citizen.  When Soetoro/Obama was approximately four (4) years old his parents divorced and thereafter, Soetoro/Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia.  Evidence points to the fact that Lolo Soetoro either signed a government form legally “acknowledging” Soetoro/Obama as his son or “adopted” Soetoro, either of which changed any citizenship status Soetoro/Obama had to a “natural” citizen of Indonesia.

At the time Barry Soetoro was in Indonesia, all Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga.  The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.

Soetoro/Obama was registered in a public school as an Indonesian citizen by the name of Barry Soetoro and his father was listed as Lolo Soetoro, M.A.  Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, and any time a child was registered for a public school, the child’s name and citizenship status were verified through the Indonesian Government.  See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Chapter 13, Law No. 62 of 1958 (all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education).  The Indonesian school record, indicates that Soetoro/Obama’s name is “Barry Soetoro;” his nationality is “Indonesia” and his father “Lolo Soetoro, M.A.  There was no way for Soetoro/Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, Indonesia legally unless he was an Indonesian citizen, as Indonesia was under tight rule and was a Police State.  See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Law No. 62 of 1958.  These facts indicate that Obama/Soetoro is an Indonesian citizen, and therefore he is not eligible to be President of the United States.

Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Soetoro/Obama, an Indonesian State citizen.  See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie).

Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once an Indonesian citizen adopts a child, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child and the child takes the name of his step-father, in this case, Soetoro. See Indonesian Constitution, Article 2.

The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual) citizenship.  Indonesian regulations recognized neither apatride nor bipatride (stateless or dual) citizenship.  Since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship; neither did the United States (since the United States only permitted dual citizenship when ‘both’ countries agree); and since Obama/Soetoro was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, the United States would not step in or interfere with the laws of Indonesia.  Hague Convention of 1930.

As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian “natural” citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact he ever held such, which we doubt.  Soetoro/Obama could have only become “naturalized” if the proper paperwork were filed with the U.S. State Department, after going through U.S. Immigration upon his return to the United States; in which case, Soetoro/Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship indicating “naturalized.”

We are informed, believe and thereon allege Obama/Soetoro was never naturalized in the United States after his return.  Soetoro/Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents.  Soetoro/Obama’s mother did not return with him.  Therefore, it appears that she did not apply for citizenship for Soetoro/Obama in the United States.  If citizenship for Soetoro/Obama had been applied for in 1971, Soetoro/Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship.  If Soetoro/Obama returned in 1971 to Hawaii without going through U.S. Immigration, today he would be an “illegal alien” – and obviously not able to serve as President, but also his term as a United States Senator from Illinois for nearly four (4) years was illegal.  We further believe Soetoro might have reentered the United States at age ten (10) by showing a copy of his Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, which he received when his birth was registered in Hawaii.

In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama.  Soetoro/Obama’s silence on these issues is deafening and his refusal to release such records to prove that none of this occurred results in his status as Acting Commander in Chief at best, and a willful action on his part to deceive the American People and the Armed Forces of the United States so that he may wield power that is in non-compliance with the United States Constitution.


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Comments
  1. The Internet is like alcohol in some sense. It accentuates what you would do anyway. If you want to be a loner, you can be more alone. If you want to connect, it makes it easier to connect.

  2. Longknife 21 says:

    smrstrauss & Ann,
    See Article above “OKUBO RESPONDS>>>>>”
    How do you explain there is no record of Obama/Soetoro/Dunham birth being recorded AT THE PROPER TIME?
    BECAUSE IT WASN”T! Proving the negative- you hardheaded O-bot!
    Respond there, this thread to long

  3. tpgow says:

    smrstrauss: At this point I don’t think it makes any difference, as the courts arn’t hearing it. His dimise is coming fast and he should be inpeached for treason against the US. he swore to uphold the constitution and he has run roughshod over it. He has shown his colors and is a true marxist along with all he appointed. The American people are not going to put up with it. He is going down faster than any American President in the history of the USA. God is on our side. No doubt in my mind The US Constitution will win.
    DON’T TREAD ON ME! HEAR THE RATTLE OF THE SNAKE!

  4. smrstrauss says:

    Re: “Obama Files has info and a link that shows there was no OBAMA child born in Hawaii in the time claimed.”

    Obama files has speculation, based on weak facts, that there was no Obama. The officials in Hawaii have confirmed repeatedly that there is an Obama file and that it was created in 1961, when he was born, and that the original document in the file shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

  5. smrstrauss says:

    Re: “The Usurper was born in Kenya not Hawaii as you claim. “

    Learn to deal with the facts. Obama’s Kenyan grandmother never said that Obama was born in Kenya. She said that he was born in Hawaii. . Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    For a child born in Kenya to get to the USA requires a travel document from the UNITED STATES, such as a visa on a foreign passport or the change to his mother’s passport to include him while mother and child were in Kenya. Such a document would have been found by now.

    This is what the National Review said about the Kenya myth: “The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.”

    Re: “The short form that was on the internet was a fraud…”

    The short-form on the Internet is not forged. Only two guys who will not give their real names have said that it is forged, and we know nothing about the background of these guys, whether they have any experience with documents at all. NO official body has taken action or said anything; no former FBI or Treasury Department expert said anything, and the McCain and Hillary campaigns did not say anything.

    In contrast, the two top officials of the Department of Health of Hawaii have said twice that the facts on the Certification of Live Birth are confirmed by the original document in the files.

    Re: “By the way his real name is Barry Soetoro.”

    He never officially changed his name. He simply used the name of his step-father while he was in Indonesia.

    Re: “Two sources, including Larry Johnson of No Quarter (who just returned from a business trip in Hawaii), have independently told me that Republicans have in their possession Barack Obama’s Hawaiian Birth Certificate.”

    I wouldn’t bet on it.

    Re: “The name on the Birth Certificate is Barry Soetoro.”

    But before you said that he was born in Kenya. One story or the other. please.

    The name on the original birth certificate is Barack Hussein Obama II. And the original birth certificate shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “Did I also mention how small Hawaii is? Republican operatives, with help from their own island backers, have unearthed critical information on Obama and are just biding their time until after the convention to drop it on him. “

    How dated your information is. The Convention took place in late August 2008. This is early 2010, and Obama has been president for more than a year.

    Re: “His work was the foundation for the theory, and provided affirmation of Polarik’s original findings that the COLB was forged.”

    Polarik is a pseudonym. He is one of the two guys who will not give their names. There is no evidence that the published COLB was forged. The two top officials of the DoH of Hawaii have said twice that the facts on it are confirmed by the files.

    Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, as both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said.

  6. Lynn Dartez says:

    Longknife,

    Thank you my friend. Looks like Ann might have tucked tail and left. Thank God for small favors.

  7. Longknife 21 says:

    Lynn,
    Thank you for your explaination. I doubt it will do any good with the multiplying Anns or especially smrstrauss (Kill it with FIRE!)
    I would like to again remind thinking people, as you pointed out in Fact 22- IF barry was born outside of the US, he has no claim to US citizenship AT ALL! His mother was underage to transfer citizenship of ANY KIND!

    Also, Obama Files has info and a link that shows there was no OBAMA child born in Hawaii in the time claimed. HOWZA BOUT DAT!!
    We are forced to prove a negative, and it may miracialously happen!

  8. Lynn Dartez says:

    Ann

    ANOTHER DETAILED STUDY OF THE USURPER BARRY SOETORO AKA OBAMA
    Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama – FACTS!!!

    Anybody, along with Sen. Barack Obama can seek the presidency of the United States of America, but may not qualify.

    Fact 1. Constitution Article II, Section II sets forth the qualifications for presidential candidates: “”No person except a NATURAL BORN Citizen”, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and have been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.”

    Fact 2. Just because you are a US Citizen or have a US birth certificate, does NOT mean that your are a “NATURAL BORN” Citizen of the USA!!!

    Fact 3. A Birth Certificate or documentation of a birth in a hospital should include at least: a number referring to the document, the name of the hospital, the mothers and fathers birthplace and ages, and with the attending doctor’s signature.

    Fact 4. The state of Hawaii issues a Certification of Live Birth (COLB) for those born: inside the State of Hawaii, outside of the State of Hawaii, and even outside the country if the parents, or one of the parents, are natives of, or residents in, the State of Hawaii. They also allow Late Registration.

    Every illegal alien born in Hawaii gets a Hawaiian COLB!!! The questionable*(see notes below) Certification of Live Birth (with a rev. 11/01 printed by a computer on a 2001 form for someone supposedly born in 1961) submitted on the web page of Barack Obama indicates that Barack Hussein Obama II was born on Aug. 4, 1961 to the mother Stanley Ann Dunham and father Barack Hussein Obama.
    http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert

    Fact 5. Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, was not a US citizen, he was a bureaucrat Muslim in the communist government of Kenya. Under the British Nationality Act of 1948 he was a citizen of the United Kingdom and its Colonies.

    Under this Act, IF he was married to Stanley Ann Dunham and IF he acknowledged Barack Hussein Obama, Jr, as his son, or IF they were not married and he still acknowledged the boy, and IF he filed the correct paperwork with the British Colonial Authorities in Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama II, was born as a British Colonial Citizen and possesses a Birth Certificate which should still exist on file in Kenya and, presumably, London, England.

    Under Chapter VI. Section 87, of The Constitution of Kenya, Barack Hussein Obama Sr. became a Kenyan citizen on December 12th 1963. If Barack Hussein Obama, Sr, filed the correct papers with the British Colonial Authorities and with the Kenyan Government Barack Hussein Obama II also became a Kenyan citizen on December 12th 1963 under Section 97. of the Kenyan Constitution and still remains a Kenyan Citizen.

    Fact 6. Stanley Ann Dunham married Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo a Muslim Indonesian citizen.

    Fact 7. Under Indonesian Law you can not adopt a child over the age of five, even abroad, if you are an Indonesian Citizen.

    In “Dreams from my Father”, Obama says he lived with his step-father in Indonesia for five years and that by the time he and his mother arrived in Indonesia she and Lolo had been married for over a year before Lolo returned to Indonesia.

    Five years + one year = 6 years and when Barack Hussein Obama II returned to Hawaii prior to September of 1971 because he was enrolled in his Prep School in Hawaii to start the Fifth Grade he was 10 years old so he was probably shy of 4 years old when Dunham married Soetoro and arrived in Indonesia about the time of his fifth Birthday (1966).

    Fact 8. Indonesian Law says: “Foreign persons under age of five who are adopted by Indonesian Citizens obtain Indonesian Citizenship following legalization of adoption process by District Court of general jurisdiction with jurisdiction over the adoptive parents [Id at Art. 2 (1)]“ “It is stipulated that an adopted child has the same status as a natural child, and that his or her relationship to the birth parents is severed by adoption”.

    Fact 9. The only Legal Relationship he would have to his mother is that she was married to his Legal Father Lolo Soetoro, under Indonesian Law. He would be an Indonesian Citizen with an Indonesian Passport and an entry in Lolo’s KK documents.

    Fact 10. Indonesian Law prior to August 1966 would be Indonesian Law 62/1958 and other prior Indonesian Laws. Indonesian Law does not accept Dual Nationality/Citizenship, so Barack Hussein Obama II would no longer be a US Citizen according to Indonesian Law, in fact he would be considered never to have been one at all.

    Fact 11. Lolo Soetoro would be his guardian, next of Kin and father. His Religion would be Legally Listed and Registered as Islam because children have the Religion of their Father under Indonesian Law and can have no other. His Surname would become Soetoro, in full, Soetoro Mangunharjo with Barry as his given name at the choosing by his father Lolo.

    Fact 12. Barry Soetoro was enrolled on January 1st 1968, given Serial No 203 and placed in Class 1 B. His Religion is given as Islam, his Nationality Indonesian, his Father’s Name as L Soetoro Ma., his Father’s Occupation as Official, Director General’s Office TNI [Topography Division Indonesian Army] and his Name as Barry Soetoro.

    Fact 13. Only citizen Indonesian children were enrolled in Indonesian Schools in 1968, SD Asisi was a Roman Catholic School within the Indonesian State System, it was not an International School. Therefore, if he attended this school and subsequently SDN Menteng 1, State Elementary School, and every source agrees that this is the case, he would have to have been enrolled as an Indonesian Citizen.

    Fact 14. All records show that Lolo Soetoro Ma. is described as his father and that no mention is made of his mother.

    Fact 15. Indonesia in the sixties was a Police State! Everybody, even babes, had Identity Documents of some sort, possibly including Passports.

    Everybody was registered with the Government, one way or another. The head of each family, usually the father, but in rare cases a widowed, or divorced, mother has an Official Document called a Kartu Keluarga (Family Card). This lists every household/family member and gives their details in the same way as their individual KTPs or KITAS visas would.

    Fact 16. An adopted, child called a WNI, warga negara Indonesia, has the same KK entry as any other Indonesian child. When a child enrolls in School their details are taken down from their KK Entry, as presented by the father (who is also required, at that time, to produce his KTP to verify the details on the KK). They are then given their Student KTP. KKs, like KTPs, are issued by the Government and cross checked by the National Police and Immigration Service.

    Fact 17. Everything on Barry Soetoro record’s at SD Asisi matches what would be true if he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro before he arrived in Indonesia. Schools are subject to periodical checks by both the Police and Immigration Officers as well as School Inspectors; this includes the teachers as well as the students.

    Fact 18. Under Indonesian Law Barry Soetoro was an Indonesian Citizen and he could not Renounce that Citizenship until he was between the ages of 18 and 21, after 21 possibly he could not renounce it at all.

    Fact 19. Dual nationals owe allegiance to both countries and are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if that person later travels there. Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country.

    Fact 20. Somehow Stanley Ann Dunham got the necessary letter of permission from her husband so Barry Soetoro could go to Hawaii. An Indonesian Citizen called Barry Soetoro left Jakarta on an Indonesian Passport with both a US Visa and also an Indonesian Exit Visa. But an American Citizen called Barack Obama landed in Hawaii.

    Fact 21. The US law states for a “NATURAL BORN” US Citizen for the time Barack Hussein Obama II was born between December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986: If, at the time of your birth, both your parents were U.S. citizens and at least one had a prior residence in the United States, you automatically acquired U.S. citizenship with no conditions for retaining it. If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16. immigration.findlaw.com/…/…id-you-know(1).html

    Fact 22. Obama’s mother was only 18 years old at his birth, NOT the 16 + 5 = 21 required because his father was not a US citizen. Therefore Barack Hussein Obama II is NOT a “NATURAL BORN” US Citizen as required to become the President of the USA!!!

    Fact 23. There must be a paper trail in Hawaii, US State Dept., and other Federal and Foreign Government Records to prove, or disprove the above facts and if there is not then somebody has removed the trail.

    If that is the case there has been a criminal conspiracy and all these moles involved need to go to prison!!! At the State Dept. Obama’s records have been breached 3 times by employees of a company that the CEO is an adviser to Sen. Obama!!!

    Fact 24. We had an Indonesian Barry Soetoro with an Indonesian passport leaving Indonesia but upon the arrival in Hawaii we had the same person Barack Hussein Obama II now magically a US citizen.

    Fact 25. All of Barry’s classmates throughout all of his school years knew him as Barry until he started college whereupon he was Barack Obama when he left the island of Hawaii to the mainland.

    Fact 26. It is the responsibility of the presidential candidate to prove that they meet the qualifications of the Constitution, not the voters.

    So let Barry Soetoro aka Barack Hussein Obama II supply copies of all the original documents that would prove he is a “NATURAL BORN Citizen of the United States of America” as defined and required by the US Constitution to become the President & Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces and he has no allegiance to another country!!!

    Additional Comments and Concerns:

    1. Where is the original 1961 Birth Certificate that was issued at the time of birth of Obama II with the signature of the attending doctor? There were 2 hospitals in Honolulu at that time, but by phone I was denied my request to find out if they had Obama’s documents. The document in 1961 would have been black & white!!!

    Obama claimed in the first chapter of his book Dreams From My Father: “I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school.” Time wise this would be before 1980, so why is he trying to pawn off on us a COLB that was made after 2001?

    2. Dunham by an application for SSN 535-40-8522 stating she was born Nov. 29, 1942, so if Barack was born on Aug. 4, 1961 Dunham was 18 years old.

    3. From US immigration, exactly when starting in 1961 did Dunham, Obama Sr., Barack Hussein Obama II, &/or Barry Soetoro depart Hawaii?

    Were there any other reentries or exits (with full details) before the final entry of Barack Hussein Obama II at age 10 when he started school in Sept. 1971 in Hawaii?

    4. Sen. Obama’s own Kenyan paternal grandmother, half-brother and half-sister have also claimed that Stanley Ann Dunham gave birth to little Barack in Kenya and subsequently flew to Hawaii to register the birth.

    5. Did Obama Sr. document his son with the Kenyan government? If so Obama II is probably still a citizen of Kenya &/or the UK.

    6. How did Dunham legally enter an Indonesia citizen named Barry Soetoro into Hawaii with the name of Barack Obama???

    7. Where are the legal papers that show Barry Soetoro’s name was changed to Barack Hussein Obama II?

    8. Did Barry Soetoro formally renounce Indonesian Citizenship between the ages of 18 and 21 and if so where are the documents? If Barry did not renounce then he is still an Indonesian citizen and Indonesian Law would prevail.

    9. Senator Obama was an Indonesian Citizen as a boy but probably still is one legally.

    Perhaps this explains Julia Suryakusuma’s view that Obama could run for President of Indonesia as expressed in her article in “The Jakarta Post” on 29th November 2006. Julia Suryakusuma was one of Stanley Ann Dunham’s best friends. old.thejakartapost.com/yesterdaydetail.asp

    10. Did Barack Hussein Obama II upon the age of 18 comply with all the requirements of the Selective Service Registration until he reached the age of 26: Defense Authorization Act established Title 5, U.S. Code, Section 3328? If so what is his Selective Service number? Have him release all of these records.

    11. The State Department should know what kind of passport and name Obama used on his journey to visit his mother in Pakistan, in 1981.

    Alan note: The Pakistani military government at that time did NOT ALLOW entry to Americans with American passports into Pakistan)

    12. See FACT 4. Hawaii issue of CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH (COLB) with a revision for the year 2001 for someone born in 1961 means absolutely nothing because Barack Hussein Obama II could have been born outside of the USA and still received this document since his mother was a resident of the state.

    13. * http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert – This document looks as flaky as: the forged Bush documents that DAN RATHER touted on ABC that got him fired; and John Kerry’s DD214 which was not issued until peanuts Carter gave amnesty to the traitors & draft dodgers of his time.

    You do not need to be a computer expert to question this Certification of Live Birth:

    A. The certification number is blocked out (probably by Photoshop), at the bottom of the certificate it says “any alterations invalidates this certificate”.

    B. The birth supposed to have happened in 1961 but the COLB was printed by a laser printer (non-existent in 1961) on a form revised in 2001.

    C. There is no space between ,1 on August 8,1961 as there is between 4, 1 on the August 4, 1961.

    D. In 1961 the Birth Certificates were black & white!!!

    E. In 1961 Dunham, the mother’s race would have been listed as WHITE, not Caucasian.

    F. In 1961 Obama, the father’s race would have been listed as BLACK or NEGRO, not African.

    G. All that Sen. Obama needs to do to clarify the COLB & other facts, questions, notes, and comments made above is to authorize the release of all his original records where ever they maybe found. (Something that John Kerry has never authorized with all of his military records, FBI records, or CIA records!!!)

    Alan Note: Obama’s first action was to sign an Executive Order of the Presidency preventing anyone accessing any of his background comuments, specially his brith certificate. Now he is passing a simliar bill to make it a law of the land that not his nor any of his Administration can be questioned or have documents about them viewed.

    14. Barack Obama lied to the Illinois Supreme Court when asked to provide former names, according to his attorney registration it just lists Barack Hussein Obama as full name, but his birth certificate on his web page has Barack Hussein Obama II, and his years in Indonesia he was legally Barry Soetoro.

    15. Senator Barack Hussein Obama II needs to be also investigated for breaking the Logan Act for both his World Tour trip and his trip to Kenya where Obama has involved himself in Kenyan Internal Politics where he has actively campaigned for Prime Minister Odinga’s Party, the ODM, by making speeches in Kenya.

    16. Concerning Obama’s allegiance there is at http://rawstory.com/…/…_put_hand_over_heart_1022.html a movie of Barack Hussein Obama II not standing at attention & putting his right hand over his heart during the National Anthem, instead he has his hands over his crotch while rocking back & forth.

    As Obama would say: “YES WE CAN”. Does Obama’s allegiance belong with: UK; Kenya; Indonesia; or Obama’s communist mentor from the age of 10 to 18 was “Frank” from Obama’s book “Dreams from My Father” which was the sex deviate negroid Frank Marshall Davis who had sex with a 13 year old girl with his wife and Davis’ espionage against the USA as a member of the Communist Party of United States in Hawaii & ties in Chicago that the FBI has 601 pages documented.

    Or Obama’s connection to the same kind of people in Chicago are:

    racist hating Dr. Rev. “God damn America” Wright that made an unauthorized trip to Cuba to consult with Comrade Castro and that taught Black Liberation Theology to the Obama’s for more than 20 years so Obama thinks he can claim that he is a Christian;

    his buddies that provided most of Obama’s security during the primaries from The Nation of Islam & Louis Farrakhan; the Weather Underground terrorists & Communist the unrepentant William Ayers and Bernadine Dohrn where Obama launched his political career at their home;

    and/or his political financial buddies convicted felon billionaire George Soros & convicted felon Syrian national Tony Rezko???

    This is the Obama’s “CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN”!!!

    Or view next to Obama’s photo a Cuban flag with Che Guevara’s portrait in his Texas campaign office: http://mpinkeyes.wordpress.com/…/ or as he claims he is not or never was a Muslim check on:

    http://select.nytimes.com/…/06kristof.html and http://www.newsmax.com/…/119942.html or his ties to Saudi billionaire Dr. Khalid al-Mansour the financial backer of the Black Panthers and that helped Obama at Harvard: http://www.newsmax.com/…/127490.html

    17. So exactly who is this guy that wants to be our US Commander in Chief of Armed Forces that says: “—-we’ll make the goal of eliminating all nuclear weapons a central element in our nuclear policy”???

    He doesn’t want to spend any money on new weaponry technology while we constantly have terrorist threats. The suicidal Mullahs in Iran are on the verge of acquiring nuclear weapons but Obama will give us universal health care, do we also get a Geiger counter and iodine tablets???

    When Russia invaded democratically elected government of Georgia, Obama called on Georgia to show restraint.

    Then Comrade Obama’s solution was to call on the U.N. Security Council where Russia has veto power, then goes body surfing!!! Do we want the commander in chief to pass the mantle of U.S. leadership to the corrupt U.N.???

    18. We are wondering why Obama is not living or running for some communist government office in China after he praises the superior Communist Chinese’s infrastructures:

    “Their ports, their train systems, their airports are vastly the superior to us now…”

    “Beijing looks like a pretty good option.” After making comments like this he gets mad because we question his patriotism to the USA.

    19. Right from the mouth of a cocaine user Sen. Obama in his memoir “Dreams from My Father,” on his drug use “Pot had helped, and booze, maybe a little blow when you could afford it. Not smack though.”

    He was deterred by the image “of an air bubble, shiny and round like a pearl, rolling quietly through my vein and stopping my heart,” he says.

    “Junkie. Pothead. That’s where I’d been headed: the final, fatal role of the young would-be black man.” And he even explains how he has gotten away with avoiding discussions of his drug use and the technique he used to deceive his mother when she confronted him:

    “I had given her a reassuring smile and patted her hand and told her not to worry, I wouldn’t do anything stupid. It was usually an effective tactic, another of those tricks I had learned:

    People were satisfied so long as you were courteous and smiled and made no sudden moves.” As long as he does not deviate from his teleprompter speech and does not make in sudden moves or thoughts he does not put his foot in his mouth.

    20. Senator Barack Hussein Obama II said on CNBC television about his World Tour on July 25: “It has also allowed me to send a message to the American people that the judgments I have made and the judgments I will make are ones that are going to result in them being safer.”

    Do you feel safer now with Obama’s judgments, his associations, his friends that he has made, and that he represents the Democrat’s candidate for the President of the USA???

  9. Lynn Dartez says:

    Ann

    I have read this post in detail and must say, with all due respect, I disagree. Some very important parts were left out, which I do not believe was intentional. Thus, I would like to respond accordingly.

    First, I am unsure as to where badfiction obtained the Indonesian laws, I’m unsure as to the dates, etc. However, there are discrepancies.

    Badfiction is correct in stating that if a woman married a foreign citizen they would have lost their U.S. citizenship status if married prior to September 22, 1922. However, there is more to this, see 8 U.S.C. Section 1435(a)(2) which states “on or after September 22, 1922, a women who lost United States citizenship by marriage to an alien ineligible to citizenship…” However, Indonesia also required Stanley Ann Dunham to relinquish her U.S. Citizenship, which is an affirmative act, therefore, Stanley Ann Dunham did not simply lose her U.S. Citizenship status by marriage alone.

    Badfiction claims that a parent cannot expatriate a child’s U.S. citizenship, however, this is not correct. See The Nationality Act of 1940, revised 1952, Section 318(a) “A former citizen of the United States expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents and who has not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents may be naturalized upon filing a petition for naturalization before reaching age of twenty-five years and upon compliance with all requirements of the naturalization laws with the following exceptions: (b) No former citizen of the United States, expatriated through the expatriation of such person’s parent or parents shall be obliged to comply with the requirements of the immigration laws, if he has not not acquired the nationality of another country by any affirmative act other than the expatriation of his parent or parents, and if he has come or shall come to the United States before reaching the age of twenty-five years. (c) After his naturalization such person shall have the same citizenship status as if he had not been expatriated.”

    Renewing an Indonesian Passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another Country. Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian Passport when he traveled to Pakistan, that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first. Remember, in 1981, Dunham was divorcing Soetoro in Hawaii and was not in Indonesia. Obama/Soetoro admits to traveling to Indonesia first and then onto Pakistan. Soetoro/Obama claims in his book “Dreams from my father” that he stopped in Indonesia to visit his mother. But again, his mother was not in Indonesia, she was in Hawaii with Maya, divorcing Lolo Soetoro. In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama.

    Despite the above however, Indonesia required Obama/Soetoro to do a bit more upon his 18th birthday. In fact the Indonesian law gives until the age of 21. Soetoro/Obama would have had to sign an Affidavit relinquishing his Indonesian citizenship and said Affidavit had to be sent to the Indonesian Government before reclaiming any U.S. citizenship he may have once held.

    When it comes to the citizenship of individuals in other countries, we are prevented from interfering, Hague Convention 1930. Speaking of Indonesia, during the late 60’s all the way up until 2006 Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship. In 2006 they changed their laws to permit dual citizenship, however, Indonesia has had its battles with enforcing their new law permitting dual citizenship.

    With this said, from the research we have done, it appears that Soetoro became an Indonesian citizen. When Soetoro/Obama was approximately four (4) years old his parents divorced and thereafter, Soetoro/Obama’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, married Lolo Soetoro, a citizen of Indonesia. Evidence points to the fact that Lolo Soetoro either signed a government form legally “acknowledging” Soetoro/Obama as his son or “adopted” Soetoro, either of which changed any citizenship status Soetoro/Obama had to a “natural” citizen of Indonesia.

    At the time Barry Soetoro was in Indonesia, all Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, as well as family card identification called a Kartu Keluarga. The Kartu Keluarga is a family card which bears the legal names and citizenship status of all family members.

    Soetoro/Obama was registered in a public school as an Indonesian citizen by the name of Barry Soetoro and his father was listed as Lolo Soetoro, M.A. Indonesia did not allow foreign students to attend their public schools in the late 1960’s or 1970’s, and any time a child was registered for a public school, the child’s name and citizenship status were verified through the Indonesian Government. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Chapter 13, Law No. 62 of 1958 (all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education). The Indonesian school record, indicates that Soetoro/Obama’s name is “Barry Soetoro;” his nationality is “Indonesia” and his father “Lolo Soetoro, M.A. There was no way for Soetoro/Obama to have attended school in Jakarta, Indonesia legally unless he was an Indonesian citizen, as Indonesia was under tight rule and was a Police State. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia (Undang-Undang Dasar Republik Indonesia 1945), Law No. 62 of 1958. These facts indicate that Obama/Soetoro is an Indonesian citizen, and therefore he is not eligible to be President of the United States.

    Under Indonesian law, when a male acknowledges a child as his son, it deems the son, in this case Soetoro/Obama, an Indonesian State citizen. See Constitution of Republic of Indonesia, Law No. 62 of 1958 concerning Immigration Affairs and Indonesian Civil Code (Kitab Undang-undang Hukum Perdata) (KUHPer) (Burgerlijk Wetboek voor Indonesie).

    Furthermore, under the Indonesian adoption law, once an Indonesian citizen adopts a child, the adoption severs the child’s relationship to the birth parents, and the adopted child is given the same status as a natural child and the child takes the name of his step-father, in this case, Soetoro. See Indonesian Constitution, Article 2.

    The Indonesian citizenship law was designed to prevent apatride (stateless) or bipatride (dual) citizenship. Indonesian regulations recognized neither apatride nor bipatride (stateless or dual) citizenship. Since Indonesia did not allow dual citizenship; neither did the United States (since the United States only permitted dual citizenship when ‘both’ countries agree); and since Obama/Soetoro was a “natural” citizen of Indonesia, the United States would not step in or interfere with the laws of Indonesia. Hague Convention of 1930.

    As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian “natural” citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. “natural born” status, if he in fact he ever held such, which we doubt. Soetoro/Obama could have only become “naturalized” if the proper paperwork were filed with the U.S. State Department, after going through U.S. Immigration upon his return to the United States; in which case, Soetoro/Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship indicating “naturalized.”

    We are informed, believe and thereon allege Obama/Soetoro was never naturalized in the United States after his return. Soetoro/Obama was ten (10) years old when he returned to Hawaii to live with his grandparents. Soetoro/Obama’s mother did not return with him. Therefore, it appears that she did not apply for citizenship for Soetoro/Obama in the United States. If citizenship for Soetoro/Obama had been applied for in 1971, Soetoro/Obama would have a Certification of Citizenship. If Soetoro/Obama returned in 1971 to Hawaii without going through U.S. Immigration, today he would be an “illegal alien” – and obviously not able to serve as President, but also his term as a United States Senator from Illinois for nearly four (4) years was illegal. We further believe Soetoro might have reentered the United States at age ten (10) by showing a copy of his Hawaiian Certification of Live Birth, which he received when his birth was registered in Hawaii.

    In addition, we have been unable to locate any legal documents wherein Soetoro’s name was legally changed from Barry Soetoro to Barack Hussein Obama. Soetoro/Obama’s silence on these issues is deafening and his refusal to release such records to prove that none of this occurred results in his status as Acting Commander in Chief at best, and a willful action on his part to deceive the American People and the Armed Forces of the United States so that he may wield power that is in non-compliance with the United States Constitution.

  10. Lynn Dartez says:

    Ann

    The “An American Expat in Southeast Asia” blog reports that Obama’s Indonesian schooling began when he was entered into the Roman Catholic, Franciscus Assisi Primary School on January 1, 1968 and sat in class 1B. He was registered under the name Barry Soetoro, serial number 203. School documents listed Barry Soetoro as an Indonesian citizen and his religion was listed as Islam. He will spend three years at Franciscus.

    Catholic schools accept non-Catholics worldwide. Non-Catholic students are typically excused from religious instruction and ceremony.

    1971
    Obama’s family moves from H Ramir Street to Dempo Street and Obama enters the 4th grade at the Besuki Primary School, a government school. He was enrolled as Barry Soetoro, Muslim.

    1971
    All Indonesian students are required to study religion at school and a young Barry Soetoro, being a Muslim, would have been required to study Islam daily in school.

    He would have been taught to read and write Arabic, to recite his prayers properly, to read and recite from the Quran and to study the laws of Islam.

    In his autobiography, “Dreams From My Father,” Obama mentions studying the Quran and describes the public school as “a Muslim school.”

    According to Tine Hahiyary, one of Obama’s teachers and the principal from 1971 through 1989, Barry actively took part in the Islamic religious lessons during his time at the school. His teacher was named Maimunah and she lived in the Puncak area, the Cianjur Regency. “I remembered that he had studied “mengaji” (recitation of the Quran)” Tine said.

    Obama himself recalls, “In the Muslim school, the teacher wrote to tell mother I made faces during Koranic studies.”

    Our guy in Jakarta writes: “The actual usage of the word ‘mengaji’ in Indonesian and Malaysian societies means the study of learning to recite the Quran in the Arabic language rather than the native tongue. “Mengagi” is a word and a term that is accorded the highest value and status in the mindset of fundamentalist societies here in Southeast Asia. To put it quite simply, ‘mengaji classes’ are not something that a non practicing or so-called moderate Muslim family would ever send their child to. To put this in a Christian context, this is something above and beyond simply enrolling your child in Sunday school classes.”

    “The fact that Obama had attended mengaji classes is well known in Indonesia and has left many there wondering just when Obama is going to come out of the closet.”

    “As I’ve stated before, the evidence seems to quite clearly show that both Ann Dunham and her husband Lolo Soetoro Mangunharjo were in fact devout Muslims themselves and they raised their son as such.”

    These are the values of Obama’s church:
    Commitment to God. “The God of our weary years” will give us the strength to give up prayerful passivism and become Black Christian Activists, soldiers for Black freedom and the dignity of all humankind.

    Commitment to the Black Community. The highest level of achievement for any Black person must be a contribution of strength and continuity of the Black Community.

    Commitment to the Black Family. The Black family circle must generate strength, stability and love, despite the uncertainty of externals, because these characteristics are required if the developing person is to withstand warping by our racist competitive society.

    Those Blacks who are blessed with membership in a strong family unit must reach out and expand that blessing to the less fortunate.

    Dedication to the Pursuit of Education. We must forswear anti-intellectualism. Continued survival demands that each Black person be developed to the utmost of his/her mental potential despite the inadequacies of the formal education process. “Real education” fosters understanding of ourselves as well as every aspect of our environment. Also, it develops within us the ability to fashion concepts and tools for better utilization of our resources, and more effective solutions to our problems. Since the majority of Blacks have been denied such learning, Black Education must include elements that produce high school graduates with marketable skills, a trade or qualifications for apprenticeships, or proper preparation for college.

    Basic education for all Blacks should include Mathematics, Science, Logic, General Semantics, Participative Politics, Economics and Finance, and the Care and Nurture of Black minds.

    Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence. To the extent that we individually reach for, even strain for excellence, we increase, geometrically, the value and resourcefulness of the Black Community. We must recognize the relativity of one’s best; this year’s best can be bettered next year. Such is the language of growth and development. We must seek to excel in every endeavor.
    Adherence to the Black Work Ethic. “It is becoming harder to find qualified people to work in Chicago.” Whether this is true or not, it represents one of the many reasons given by businesses and industries for deserting the Chicago area. We must realize that a location with good facilities, adequate transportation and a reputation for producing skilled workers will attract industry. We are in competition with other cities, states and nations for jobs. High productivity must be a goal of the Black workforce.

    Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect. To accomplish anything worthwhile requires self-discipline. We must be a community of self-disciplined persons if we are to actualize and utilize our own human resources, instead of perpetually submitting to exploitation by others. Self-discipline, coupled with a respect for self, will enable each of us to be an instrument of Black Progress and a model for Black Youth.

    Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness.” Classic methodology on control of captives teaches that captors must be able to identify the “talented tenth” of those subjugated, especially those who show promise of providing the kind of leadership that might threaten the captor’s control.

    Those so identified are separated from the rest of the people by:

    Killing them off directly, and/or fostering a social system that encourages them to kill off one another.
    Placing them in concentration camps, and/or structuring an economic environment that induces captive youth to fill the jails and prisons.
    Seducing them into a socioeconomic class system which, while training them to earn more dollars, hypnotizes them into believing they are better than others and teaches them to think in terms of “we” and “they” instead of “us.”
    So, while it is permissible to chase “middleclassness” with all our might, we must avoid the third separation method – the psychological entrapment of Black “middleclassness.” If we avoid this snare, we will also diminish our “voluntary” contributions to methods A and B. And more importantly, Black people no longer will be deprived of their birthright: the leadership, resourcefulness and example of their own talented persons.

    Pledge to Make the Fruits of All Developing and Acquired Skills Available to the Black Community.

    Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting Black Institutions.

    Pledge Allegiance to All Black Leadership Who Espouse and Embrace the Black Value System.

    Personal Commitment to Embracement of the Black Value System. To measure the worth and validity of all activity in terms of positive contributions to the general welfare of the Black Community and the Advancement of Black People towards freedom.

    Now substitute every word that says “black” with “white” and ask yourself if we would be racist or what would Jesse Jackson or Al say?
    This does speak of harmony with our fellow Americans of all race.

  11. Lynn Dartez says:

    Ann,

    The Usurper was born in Kenya not Hawaii as you claim. The short form that was on the internet was a fraud as is the Zebra. In the code of that internet document lies a name DUCKY she signs all her work with that name. Ducky is shprt for Duckworth. Get your facts straight before commenting on something.

    By the way his real name is Barry Soetoro.

    Two sources, including Larry Johnson of No Quarter (who just returned from a business trip in Hawaii), have independently told me that Republicans have in their possession Barack Obama’s Hawaiian Birth Certificate.

    The sources confirm that the theory I presented here — see Obama Hides Indonesian Identity, Fake Birth Certificate Explained — nearly 10 days ago, IS TRUE:

    The name on the Birth Certificate is Barry Soetoro.

    Did I also mention how small Hawaii is? Republican operatives, with help from their own island backers, have unearthed critical information on Obama and are just biding their time until after the convention to drop it on him. Such as? Having a birth certificate that lists you as Barry Soetoro.

    Thanks to Judah Benjamin for doing the ground-breaking research for this blog on Barack Obama’s Indonesian connection.

    His work was the foundation for the theory, and provided affirmation of Polarik’s original findings that the COLB was forged.

    What does this mean?

    It means that Barack Obama has been hiding his Indonesian identity and citizenship, as we’ve been trying to shout from the rooftop for weeks. He may still have Indonesian citizenship; or maybe he dumped it along the way to help polish the path forward for political ambitions.

    Never mind; Obama concealed it from us. He lied. He tried to wipe out his past, for fear that it would render him ineligible. He thought he was beyond being vetted, questioned, researched. He thought he was the Messiah.

    Larry has more, and I have a feeling this passage alludes to the possibility that Obama used his Indonesian identity (perhaps a passport?) to travel to Pakistan:

    I confirmed today that several teams/individuals visited Jakarta during the last six months to gather up critical documents regarding Barack. It is amazing what money can buy. The information includes details of how Barack made his way to Pakistan. Oh! Did I mention there have been similar efforts underway in Pakistan. There are several lessons and warnings in the John Edwards affair for Obama. First and foremost, you cannot hide your past.

    No, you cannot hide from your past. Nor can you hide from citizen journalists.

  12. ann1 says:

    tpgow

    Since you no longer are discussing the facts, I assume that you accept the fact that Obama was born in Hawaii, as his official birth certificate confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii shows.

    I just took a look at the video of video of Diane Watson the commie saying Obama born in Kenya.

    No she said that Obama was from Kenya AND Kansas. That referred to the place of birth of his father and his mother, both of which are already well known.

    The Kenyan grandmother also did not say that Obama was born in Kenya.

  13. tpgow says:

    Ann I will not give you the dignity of a reply. You are just stupid and like making everything your own version. You will not “push my bottons anymore” It feels better to ignore people like you. If fact I think all will ignore you on here. No Replies no future for you here. We don’t mind different opinions on here, but not stupid one’s just for the sake of arugement. You just show stupidty and ingnorance with each reply. Haven’t got time for you. You want to win. I claim you winner altho you have changed no minds on here. GO AWAY OBOT

  14. You identify, people always make comments when anything is predicted to happen in 2012, like “fairly that is if the faction is subdue here.” You do realize that the Mayans suggest the creation will end on Dec. 21 (or 23rd)? So in all distinct possibility if anything is booming to encounter in 2012 there is only the slimmest possibility that the everybody hand down secure ended forward of it happens.
    mayan calendar 2012
    – some truth about 2012

  15. ann1 says:

    Re: “ Do you really hate America and the economic prosperity shared by those that choose to try to produce!”

    Answer: I am a fairly prosperous capitalist.

    Re: “You want to destroy America.”

    Answer: Not at all. I simply write the truth.

    Re: “but want to destroy those that produce the real wealth?”

    Answer: You mean like me?

    Re: “By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent.”

    Answer: That referred only to the assertion of executive privilege by a president. Its main intent was to cover former presidents. It also includes current presidents. HOWEVER, the order has absolutely nothing to do with state records or college records. It does not itself seal records. It sets a procedure by which records can be unsealed despite the desire of former presidents, and it applies only to federal, presidential records, not to state or college records. The birth certificate and college records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “He is a an illegal alien from Kenya. You will never win this argument here or any other true Patriot blog on the internet.”

    Obama’s Kenyan grandmother never said that he was born in Kenya. She actually said that he was born in Hawaii. Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-. If you find it too difficult to listen to the complete tape, here is a transcript. http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/obamatranscriptlulu109.pdf

    The National Review commented: “The theory that Obama was born in Kenya, that he was smuggled into the U.S., and that his parents somehow hoodwinked Hawaiian authorities into falsely certifying his birth in Oahu, is crazy stuff.”

    In addition to there being no proof or even a credible story that Obama was born in Kenya, there is the official birth certificate of Hawaii, the facts on which were confirmed twice by the two top officials of the Department of Health of Hawaii.

  16. tpgow says:

    http://tinyurl.com/yfjnw7c

    Ann Here’s video of Diane Watson the commie saying Obama born in Kenya
    Listen, watch and weep

  17. Lynn Dartez says:

    I guess it is time for me to chime in. Ann you must have the Zebra fever bad. He was not born in America nether is he a citizen. He is a an illegal alien from Kenya. You will never win this argument here or any other true Patriot blog on the internet.

    The Constitution is what we stand for here. The truth is put upon this blog everyday. If you are too blind to read it well that’s your problem. Don’t try to convince other on here of your stupidity. Just go run with the rest of the Zebra crowd and leave us alone here.

    Lynn Dartez

  18. Longknife 21 says:

    Ann
    Do you really hate America and the economic prosperity shared by those that choose to try to produce! Your Marxist mind set wants the Usurper so much you are willing to sell your personal integrity for the agenda! You want to destroy America, but have nothing to replace it, but Zombieland! Destroy what produces with no plan to replace or rebuild, because the best of production doesn’t go to who you choose? You would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs because you don’t like where they go? You want the Muney!!, but want to destroy those that produce the real wealth? The ULTIMATE PARASITES! Destroy your hosts even as you know it destroys your means of survival! Over educated IDIOT! Real wealth is produced in the country, not by politicians, bankers, or commie ‘labor leaders’ and community organizers!
    You are truly a Zombieland Promoter! Live with it while you can, because you will die with it when your ‘dream’ comes true, because you are a useless eater to your Masters, if they win. And when we win, and we will, your highest and best use may well be in the fertilizer catagory!
    Have a nice night !

  19. Longknife 21 says:

    Ann
    Do you really hate America and the shared economic prosperity shared by those that choose to try to produce! Your Marxist mind set wants the Usurper so much you are willing to sell your personal integrity for the agenda! You want to destroy America, but have nothing to replace it but Zombieland! Destroy with no plan to replace or rebuild. The ULTIMATE PARASITES! Destroy your hosts even as you know it destroys your means of survival! Over educated IDIOT!
    You are truly a Zombieland Promoter! Live with it while you can, because you will die with it when your ‘dream’ comes true, because you are a useless eater to your Masters, if they win. And if we win, and we will, your highest and best use in the fertilizer catagory!
    Have a nice night1

  20. tpgow says:

    ANNhFor Immediate Release January 21, 2009

    EXECUTIVE ORDER 13489 – – – – – – –

    PRESIDENTIAL RECORDS

    By the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and the laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish policies and procedures governing the assertion of executive privilege by incumbent and former Presidents in connection with the release of Presidential records by the National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) pursuant to the Presidential Records Act of 1978, it is hereby ordered as follows: Section 1. Definitions. For purposes of this order:
    ole:

    If you will notice It says ” INCUMBENT” that means present prez. Idiot
    I can post the whole order if you like.
    No! $100 to be given to “The arm pit of the world” before or after. Haiti you have to be kidding. Charity begins in the USA and no where else, No wonder this country is so messed up. You A$$h$l$s VOTE.

  21. ann1 says:

    Re: “Michelle Obama his wife said he was adopted. What more do you want?”

    NO, she didn’t. She said that IF he had been adopted, it wouldn’t make a damn bit of difference, which is true.

    Not only did she not say that Obama was adopted, but he wasn’t.

    Obama did not say that he was adopted in his book, and he always refers to Soetoro as his step-father, and the US State Department has said that he was never adopted.

    Re: “You do not address the fact that his father was a British Subject. Auto makes him NO PREZ OF THE USA.”

    A very simple and direct answer, the fact that his father was a British Subject has NO effect on his being a Natural Born Citizen, which only requires birth in the USA. Every citizen who was born in the USA is a Natural Born Citizen. The original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country” and the only exceptions were the children of foreign diplomats. Obama’s father was not a foreign diplomat.

    The fact that all children born in the USA are Natural Born Citizens is shown in the large number of federal law cases that refer to the US-born children of foreigners as Natural Born Citizens. Such as:

    Mustata v. US Dept. of Justice, 179 F.3d 1017 (6th Cir. 1999) (children born in US to two Romanian citizens described as “natural born citizens” of the US):

    “Petitioners Marian and Lenuta Mustata are citizens of Romania. At the time of their petition, they resided in Michigan with their two minor children, who are natural born citizens of the United States.”

    What makes the children Natural Born Citizens? Only the place of their birth.

    This and all the other cases that call the US-born children of foreigners Natural Born Citizens stems from the Wong Kim Ark case which ruled that EVERY child born in the USA is Natural Born, and when that person is also a citizen, she or he is naturally a Natural Born Citizen.

  22. tpgow says:

    With due respect to my opponents, it would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    Ann: Michelle Obama his wife said he was adopted. What more do you want? I sent link of what she said. The lefties have stunted your brain. Everytime you read their blogs more brain cells die. You do not address the fact that his father was a British Subject. Auto makes him NO PREZ OF THE USA> Not going to say one more word about it. Move on to Moveon .org. They buy in to your crap. We do not, will not, and don’t care what you say. We have proved everything we said . YOU HAVE NOT.
    EMPTY WORDS MATCH THE EMPTY SUIT IN WH.
    BY BY ! Thanks for playing !

  23. ann1 says:

    With due respect to my opponents, it would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the one in October 2008m the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)
    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged.

    Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen.

    BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

  24. ann1 says:

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.
    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.
    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.
    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.

    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)
    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”
    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”
    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore.
    (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obamas’ confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  25. smrstrauss says:

    Facts are indeed facts. With due respect to my opponents, it would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)
    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged.

    Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen.

    BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.
    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.
    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.
    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.

    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)
    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”
    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”
    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

  26. tpgow says:

    Longknife: I am tired of trying to teach PIGS to sing, and we already know they can’t FLY. But maybe I am wrong. Ann can fly to Moveon.org and sing there. lol

    You will change no minds here Ann. Facts are Facts and that can’t be changed. You have not 1 taker here. The usuper is a fake phony marxist.

  27. Lynn Dartez says:

    Thanks for the info txlady. We can always check the ip addresses to see where they are coming from.

  28. ann says:

    With all due respect to my opponents, it would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)
    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged.

    Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen.

    BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.
    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.
    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.
    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.

    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)
    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”
    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”
    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore.
    (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)
    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obamas’ confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  29. ann1 says:

    It would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)
    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged.

    Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen.

    BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.
    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.
    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.
    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.

    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)
    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”
    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”
    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

  30. ann1 says:

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.
    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.

    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)
    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”
    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”
    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore.
    (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)
    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obamas’ confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  31. txlady706 says:

    All:
    Just letting you know that Ann1 sounds like smrstrauss. The Obama administration has developed a counter to all the bloggers. They are using false names and are dispersing false information to blogs. This has happened on my blog as well. Just letting you know that you maybe arguing, not with an individual, but with a machine.

  32. Longknife 21 says:

    Poor Ann.

    Hey, Folks,
    We are back teaching pigs to sing: It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
    Ann will argue the same old lame FactChek and MoveOn.org stuff she has been taught to parrot until her teeth fall out and she looks like a parrot. She will beat the letters off her keyboard, and buy another one but still not listen. Or try to think. Or read anything other than what she is told to by her handlers.
    OBAMA – GOOD
    GEORGE SOROS – GOOD
    Yup, Yup, Yup!

    Everything else – BAD
    Constitution, Freedom, Balanced Budget, Capitalism, America – ALL BAD, BAD, BAD!!

  33. annone says:

    It would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged. Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged, so what is the point.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen. BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.

    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.

    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.

    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.
    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)

    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”

    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”

    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obama’s confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  34. ann says:

    How passionate you guys are. It would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Actually, not merely one official has but two officials have confirmed it (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged. Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged, so what is the point.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen. BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.

    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.

    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.

    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.
    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)

    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”

    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”

    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obama’s confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  35. ann1 says:

    How passionate you guys are. It would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged. Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged, so what is the point.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen. BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.

    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.

    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.

    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.
    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)

    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”

    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”

    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obama’s confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  36. ann1 says:

    How passionate you guys are. It would be nice if you checked the facts from time to time. For example, the guy who claimed that Obama admitted that he was adopted in his book has not repeated that claim because it wasn’t in the book.

    For the latest set of responses and comments, let’s start with this absurd claim: “No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None.”

    That is wrong. They have. Not one official has but two officials have confirmed (three if you count the clerk who filled in the form on the Certification of Live Birth).

    Here is the most recent:

    “I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago….” (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-07-27-obama-hawaii_N.htm).

    That statement says that she has seen the original record and that it verifies that Obama was born in Hawaii. Repeat VERIFIES THAT OBAMA WAS BORN IN HAWAII.

    Moreover, she did not say that the original document might be a delayed birth certificate or a statement of a witness who did not actually see the birth. She said that the original document says that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    At this point, I sometimes get replies that say something like: “there were five different birth certificates in Hawaii at the time.” This turns out not to be true. But in any case, in NONE of them was it possible to get a birth certificate that said “born in Hawaii” on it unless there was proof that the child was born in Hawaii.

    In the previous statement to the one quoted above, the spokeswoman for the department was asked whether Dr Fukino was saying that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Quotes:

    ” Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

    “Yes,” said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune. “That’s what Dr. Fukino is saying.” (
    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html)

    End Quotes

    This is even a more direct statement than that above. The Fukino statement says that based on the original document, Obama was born in Hawaii. The Okubo statement says that Fukino said that Obama was born in Hawaii. Both are, of course, based on the same document in the files. IF that document were in some way forged or inaccurate, then of course what the officials have said would be wrong. But the statements of the officials indicate that they do not believe that the original was ambiguous or forged. Since they are Republicans and have no reason to lie (and the consequences of their lying would involve their being fired at the very least) it is easy to believe them.

    Then, you may ask, why don’t they release the original? (1) Because they believe that having confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii twice is sufficient; (2) Because they don’t release the original for anyone; (3) Because even if they release the original birthers are likely to continue claiming that it is forged, so what is the point.

    Re: “This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro.”

    It also shows that Obama was born in Hawaii. It is an unsigned document. Was it filled in by the parents or by a clerk at the school? Do parents sometimes lie to get their children into schools?

    As I said before, both the US State Department and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen. Someone has asked me how I know that Indonesia said that Obama was never a citizen. BECAUSE I ASKED THEM. If you do not believe me, you can ask them too. Here is the telephone number of the Indonesian Embassy in Washington ((202) 775-5200). Ask for the press officer. The same press officer will tell you that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were foreign students attending school with him.

    Re: “Berg explains he believes…Indonesian citizen”

    Berg also believes (or believed at one time) that George W. Bush was part of the conspiracy to bring down the World Trade Center on 9/11. The fact that Berg believes that Obama was an Indonesian citizen is meaningless when the Indonesian government says does not believe that Obama was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.”

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.”

    You are incorrect on this. The US State Department made no such claim. Obama had a US passport from the time that he left Hawaii to go to Indonesia with his mother. You will see in his first book, Dreams from My Father, that he and his mother applied for passports just before the trip to Indonesia.

    Obama traveled to Pakistan on a US passport. Pakistan was not on any no-travel list at the time.

    Re: “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status.”

    Obama never lost his US citizenship and was never an Indonesian citizen. Since he never lost his US citizenship, he did not have to regain it. He was a Natural Born Citizen by virtue of being born in Hawaii, which has been repeatedly confirmed by the two officials in Hawaii.

    Re: “Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.”

    Since Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, he could not have received aid as a foreign national. There is no law that says that presidential candidates or presidents have to release their college records. One excellent reason that Obama does not release those records is that it would mean that guys like Berg would be able to force future presidents to release their private records.

    Re: “Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.”

    And, in the 1950s, when about one-third of Americans believed that the world was flat, it was good politics to ask your opponents whether they believed that the world was flat.

    Re: “Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.”

    And, except where the proposed legislation is ambiguous (which will never pass), the proposed proof of eligibility is the OFFICIAL birth certificate of the place of birth. The Wall Street Journal has already commented on this. It said: “Further, if Congress were to pass the so-called birther bill, Obama would be able to comply easily. The bill would require presidential campaigns to submit “a copy of the candidate’s birth certificate” to the Federal Election Commission. The certificate Obama has released publicly would meet this requirement.”

    It is highly doubtful that any bill that asks for the original birth certificate would ever pass, since several states no longer issue copies of the original.

    Re: “The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims.”

    He was born in Hawaii as the official birth certificate of Hawaii proves, and the official birth certificate was confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.

    Re: “or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.”

    Dual citizenship has no effect on Natural Born Status anymore than it could change Ohio-born status. Since the original meaning of Natural Born was simply “born in the country’ (except to children of foreign diplomats), then no foreign law can make you NOT born in the country. The writers of the Constitution believed that if you were born in the USA, your allegiance would be to the USA regardless of the citizenship of your parents at the time.

    James Madison said that sole criterion of allegiance in the USA is the place of birth. He said: “It is an established maxim, that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth, however, derives its force sometimes from place, and sometimes from parentage; but, in general, place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States.

    And Blackstone held that a person could have only one allegiance, to the country where she or he was born.

    Re: “you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship.”

    As I said, I called the Indonesian Embassy and asked. You can check with the Indonesian Embassy yourself.

    Re the US State Department not saying that Obama was a citizen. I pointed out that they said that Obama was not a citizen of Indonesia, which it did in this legal filing.
    http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6 (You will see the denial that Obama was ever a citizen of Indonesia or was ever adopted at several points in the document, for example at #40.)

    It is Hawaii that has shown that Obama is a Natural Born Citizen.

    Re: “Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence.”

    NO he didn’t. His Executive Order applied to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It did not apply to him. It did not apply to state or college records of anyone. Those records are not sealed; they are simply private.

    Re: “Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100.”

    That is the way that they do things in Hawaii. Please send the money as a contribution to the American Red Cross marked for relief in Haiti.

    Re; “The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.”

    The officials in Hawaii have explained that the rules were that anyone could list their race any way that they wanted.

    Re: “That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for..”

    NO it doesn’t. It means the date that the original document was put in the files. In any case, the officials in Hawaii have said twice that the original document shows that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    Re: “It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist…”

    Of course not. This is not the original birth certificate. It is the new OFFICIAL birth certificate. It is the only birth certificate that Hawaii issues. Hawaii no longer sends out copies of the original birth certificate to anyone. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html). Many states are now issuing only short-form, laser-printed birth certificates. When they follow the format that the US State Department has required (as Hawaii does), they are accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the branches of the US military. The Hawaii Certification of Live Birth is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department and the military, and in Obamas’ case the facts on the official document were confirmed twice by the two Republican officials who head the Department of Health of Hawaii.

    Re: “Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.”

    There has been reporting that Indonesian schools just put down the religion of the father (in this case the step-father) who was applying. (
    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/).

    In any case, it does not affect the citizenship line. That line claims that Obama was an Indonesian citizen, but both Indonesia and the US State Department say that he wasn’t.

    Re: “an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii.”

    It is signed, on the back where the seal is, and that is where it is supposed to be. And the two officials of Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, and the very application that you refer to, the application to the Catholic school in Jakarta, says that he was born in Hawaii, and Obama’s Kenyan grandmother on tape, when asked “whereabouts was he born?” said that he was born in Hawaii.
    Listen to the complete tape, until after the question “Whereabouts was he born?” http://www.obamacrimes.info/Telephone_Interview_with_Sarah_Hussein_Obama_10-16-

    Re: “Look up Executive Order 13489.”

    I have. It applies to the federal presidential records of former presidents. It does not apply to Obama or to the state or college records of anyone.

    Re: “He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required.”

    Obama has proven his eligibility by showing the official birth certificate of Hawaii. NO other president has ever shown his birth certificate. (There are some reports that GW Bush’s certificate is available at his presidential library and the same for Ronald Reagan, but neither was made available before their election.)

    Are: “Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records?”

    The press never claimed that they had a legal right to either of those, and they did not “clamor” once Bush was elected.

    Re: “his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see.”

    These are CLAIMS, not proven, and not affecting Obama’s eligibility in any case.

    Re: “Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that.”

    I repeat, never a case against Obama just for records.

    Re Department of Justice Lawyers.

    There was actually a case where the judge got mad at the plaintiffs and ordered them to pay the lawyers’ costs, meaning the cost of the government lawyers, and they put down $25 or some low fee like that. It is easy and inexpensive to get stupid cases thrown out.

    Re: “It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records.”

    Obama has had his OFFICIAL birth certificate released, and the facts on it were confirmed. This is the only birth certificate that he can have released. Hawaii does not release copies of the original anymore. (http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html)

    Re: “Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one!”

    Here are two; (1) He has released the official birth certificate; (2) He cannot release the original because he does not have it. He has the document that Hawaii sent him, and Hawaii only sends out the Certification. The Certification is sufficient, however. It is accepted as proof of birth in the USA by the US State Department, and the officials in Hawaii have twice confirmed that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

    The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the Electors of the Electoral College in a campaign by birthers and two-fers. Not one of the 375 electoral votes that Obama won in the general election change to vote against Obama. The claim that Obama is not a Natural Born Citizen was made to the members of Congress prior to the confirmation of Obama. Not one of the members of Congress voted against Obamas’ confirmation. He was confirmed unanimously.

  37. tpgow says:

    Ann: do you need a brick wall or Moveon .org

    AP photo confirms Obama registered as an Indonesian citizen with Islam faith?
    daily life ^

    Posted on Friday, August 15, 2008 6:00:51 PM by maccaca

    18 months ago: This registration document, made available on Jan. 24, 2007, by the Fransiskus Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia, shows the registration of Barack Obama under the name Barry Soetoro into the Catholic school made by his step-father, Lolo Soetoro. The document lists Barry Soetoro as a Indonesian citizen, born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, and shows his Muslim step-father listed the boy’s religion as Islam.(AP Photo/ Tatan Syuflana)

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2062622/posts
    Picture of doc Wake up Ann can’t denie what’s out there

  38. tpgow says:

    From the CFP:

    The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

    Read what the USA State Dept said:

    On his website, Berg explains he believes Obama obtained an Indonesian passport while he lived with his mother and stepfather, Lolo Soetoro, in Indonesia, and that his act of attending school in Indonesia required him to be an Indonesian citizen.

    Further, he contends that as an adult, Obama chose to continue his Indonesian citizenship by renewing his passport.

    “Renewing an Indonesian passport after the age of 18 is an affirmative act, as you are swearing allegiance to another country. Soetoro/Obama renewed his Indonesian passport when he traveled to Pakistan, that is why he had to stop in Indonesia first. Remember, in 1981, [his mother] was divorcing Soetoro in Hawaii and was not in Indonesia. Obama/Soetoro admits to traveling to Indonesia first and then on to Pakistan. Soetoro/Obama claims in his book ‘Dreams from my Father’ that he stopped in Indonesia to visit his mother. But again, his mother was not in Indonesia, she was in Hawaii with Maya, divorcing Lolo Soetoro. In addition, the State Department has stated in response to a FOIA request that they do not have a U.S. Passport application on file for Barack H. Obama,” he explained.

    “As a result of Soetoro/Obama’s Indonesian ‘natural’ citizenship status, Soetoro/Obama could never regain U.S. ‘natural born’ status, if he in fact he ever held such, which we doubt. Soetoro/Obama could have only become ‘naturalized’ if the proper paperwork were filed with the U.S. State Department, after going through U.S. Immigration upon his return to the United States; in which case, Soetoro/Obama would have received a Certification of Citizenship indicating ‘naturalized,'” he said.

    Berg told WND he’s convinced that’s why Obama has been so adamant in refusing to release his school, college and university records. He said he believes they would show Obama received aid for school as a foreign national.

    WND previously reported on instructions to Democrats that they start asking their GOP opponents for their position on the eligibility controversy.

    And WND has reported on efforts to raise the question of Obama’s eligibility at the state and national levels. Several state legislatures are working on proposals that would require presidential candidates to submit proof of their eligibility.

    Since Obama’s election, numerous lawsuits have been filed by Berg and others alleging he did not meet the U.S. Constitution’s requirement that a president be a “natural born citizen.” The lawsuits primarily have asserted he either was not born in Hawaii as he claims or was a dual citizen because of his father’s British citizenship at the time of his birth.

    The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, “No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President.”

  39. zazzo says:

    ann1 One last try.
    You aren’t getting any smarter, but you are getting funnier and more ridiculous with each word you say.
    First of all, at least speaking for myself, I am not your friend. I just got unlucky when I ran across your letter, and thought you would welcome a few facts. Wrong!

    Speaking of proof (as you do) you have produced none of the Indonesian government saying anything about Obama’s citizenship. The State Dept never said he is a citizen – they dismissed the case saying that there wasn’t enough evidence. Well duhhh, that’s the problem – he sealed the evidence. Denying to hear the case is an admission of nothing.

    This is where you get funny. Obama’s bogus Cert of Birth is signed on the BACK! Where it is SUPPOSED to be! OK Ann – here is your chance to make an easy $100. Show me one – just one OFFICIAL birth certificate that is signed ONLY on the back and I’ll send you $100. Oh yeah, and signed by the Department of Health, too, like his is. Excuse me – I just fell off my chair laughing. OH wait – maybe Onaka is a doctor, too, and he delivered Obama. Hahahaha! Oops, he would have signed it on the front where EVERY legal birth certificate is signed BY A DOCTOR or attendant. But better yet, take your proof to http://silverstockreport.com/2009/obama-reward.html and get $100,000.

    Another version of Obama’s “official” birth certificate or whatever you call it.

    Oops, got the name wrong. Here are a whole bunch of signed ones with the right name – pick the one you like best to use as proof: http://photobucket.com/images/birth%20certificate%20obama/ Whee – Barack Obamas everywhere. Maybe we elected one of them and not the guy sitting in the WH.

    The Father’s Race is listed as African – that was NOT a category in 1961. It would have been “Black” if it were legitimate.

    Just under Father’s Race is printed: Date Filed by Registrar August 8. That is the date it was FILED. But “filed” only means applied for. When the information has been verified and accepted as true, it will state “Date Recorded.” After 40+ years it still hasn’t been approved/accepted. Hmmmm. Are they slow or what?

    Look at the lower left-hand corner of the document: “OHSM 1.1 (Rev. 11/01) Laser.” OSHM stands for Office of Health Status Monitoring, a unit of the Department of Health in Hawaii. This document was printed on a form revised in November 2001. It was printed, as indicated, on a laser printer. You can see that the date is stamped on the reverse side of the document that appears to be June 6, 2007; probably the date the document was printed. He was born in 1961 and laser printers did not exist then so it would have been produced on a typewriter. And it wouldn’t be printed on a form revised in 2001 and printed in 2007.
    In an interview Michelle said: “… it is strange that API has chosen to support the racists against my husband. There is no shame in being adopted by a stepfather.”
    You say Obama’s parents had to register him as an Indonesian citizen and Islamic to get him into a private Catholic school? International students were welcome in Catholic schools, so you must be referring to the Islam part. Yeah, he had to be Islamic to get into a Catholic School. Ann, if you were my kid I’d cry, but you’re not so I can laugh.
    Uh-huh. An unsigned application does not prove Obama was an Indonesian citizen but an unsigned Cert of Birth does prove he was born in Hawaii. Oh – you are willing to accept the part of the application that says he was born in Hawaii even though that part was unsigned, too. I think I mentioned cherry picking your information – it keeps you ignorant. But you are half right on one point – neither the application nor the Cert of Birth, by itself, proves anything. Got anything else? We do.
    No Hawaiian official has ever confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii. Never. None. There is another $100 in it for you if you can show me PROOF one has. With proof you could probably get the $100,000. Go for it.
    Obama has sealed his records – it was his first official act as president. Look up Executive Order 13489. Privacy has nothing to do with it. He applied for the job of president and proving eligibility is required. Where were you when the press was clamoring for GWB’s military and college records? He produced every record that was asked for. John Kerry wouldn’t produce his military records, but that was because he lied about them – just like Obama has lied.
    No, you obviously have no knowledge of his Sel. Service registration, his numerous Soc Security numbers, or of any of the other 20 or so records the people want to see. But the rest of us do have knowledge of those things, which is why we can out-debate you every time. In fact, it appears you have no knowledge of anything at all. Your Moveon.org education isn’t worth much.
    Never a case against Obama just for records? It would take pages to educate you on that. Stay dumb or expend the energy to research it if you have the mental capacity. Yes, he has spent our money defending himself. Who do you think pays for those Dept of Justice lawyers he has working for him? Money that comes from campaign funds used for defense is stolen money – it was donated to help him be elected not to defend himself against truth and the American people. Please – SEND HIM MORE MONEY!
    No, there is no proof AVAILABLE that he was adopted or was ever an Indonesian citizen just like there is no proof he was born in Hawaii or was ever an American citizen. He locked it all up. That’s all we are asking for – proof. There is overwhelming evidence he is not eligible to be POTUS, and absolutely none that he is. It will take him two minutes – someone else will pay the $15 – to have his birth certificate released along with his other records. Give me one good reason he is refusing to do so. Just one! Until you can you are just another Obama lemming rushing to the edge of the cliff. The truth will come out – and over you’ll go!
    Time for you to go back to Moveon.org with the rest of the nit-wits. While you’re not smart enough to be a threat, you are sure using up valuable time and space. This is the last time I’m going to waste my time trying to talk to someone who is ignorant and wishes to remain so. But thanks for the laughs. Feel free to write again and show us more of your ignorance. By doing so you can have the last word and say you won. That’s OK with me – I let my three and four year old children win, too, when we’re playing a game they obviously don’t understand.

  40. tpgow says:

    here you go Ann. His records are not private when you are president of the USA. All presidents show their school and military service records

    Obama Adopted By Indonesian Step Father According To Michelle Obama
    Featured Blog Shocking development: Mrs Obama decides enough is enough: “My husband was born in Hawaii and adopted by his step father, does that make him unpatriotic; she asks”, on a direct telephone to API.
    Accusing API of colluding with American internet bloggers in an effort to bring down her husband, Mrs Obama said she decided to call API because of what she termed, API’s help to spread rumours create… more →

    Count Us Out
    Shocking development: Mrs Obama decides enough is enough: “My husband was born in Hawaii and adopted by his step father, does that make him unpatriotic; she asks”, on a direct telephone to API.
    count us out wrote 1 year ago: Accusing API of colluding with American internet bloggers in an effort to bring down her husband, Mr … more →

    Tags: NObama Coalition, PUMA: Party Unity My Ass, ClintonSupportersForMcCain, No Bamboozling Allowed, Count Us Out Mission Statement, Barack Obama is a racist azzhole, Barack Obama Can Kiss My Ass, I Own My Vote, PUMA NObama Network

  41. ann1 says:

    Sorry for the multiple posts of the reply. You have my permission to remove the first one.

  42. ann1 says:

    The point my friends is that when both the Indonesian government and the US State BOTH say that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, then an unsigned school application and your interpretation of a law is not going to prove that it was an Indonesian citizen. Department (The US State Department, by the way, was under Republicans until January 2009, so if there was evidence that Obama was an Indonesian citizen it could have said that then)

    Re: “Obama said in his book that his Step-Father adopted him.”

    Not that I remember. SHOW it.

    Re: “like his phony Certification of Birth. An “Official” birth certificate would be signed. So you wouldn’t accept an unsigned school application but you would accept an unsigned birth certificate. That certainly speaks volumes about your intelligence. Do you accept unsigned checks and contracts, too?”

    Obama’s Certification of Live Birth IS signed. It is signed on the back, where it is supposed to be. You will see both the signature and the raised seal on the back in the FactCheck photo. (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

    Re: “why Obama’s parents registered him as Barry Soetoro in Franciscus Assisi Primary School – a Roman Catholic school – as an Indonesian and named his religion as Islam. ”

    The answer was to get him into that school. However, there has been some reporting that the school at the time simply put in the religion of the father whenever someone applied to the school. (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/)

    Either way, the unsigned application does not prove that Obama was an Indonesian citizen or that he changed his name legally or that he was a Moslem. It doesn’t prove anything. However, it does say that Obama was born in Hawaii. To be sure, this doesn’t prove anything either, but if you regard it as a legal document in which the parents could not lie (which is not true), then you must accept as true that Obama was born in Hawaii. He was, of course, born in Hawaii, as the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed. This then would be additional confirmation.

    Re: “Of course there are no records of him being an Indonesian citizen. .oh wait – what were those records he had sealed? I forgot your answer.”

    Obama has not sealed any records. His birth certificate and college records are private. Most similar records in Indonesia are private too, I believe, but certainly Obama has not sealed them because he has no power to seal them. Nor do we have any evidence that he even tried. The point is, that you believe something without any proof based on weak speculation about foreigners not being able to attend school in Indonesia WHICH IS FACTUALLY WRONG.

    Re: “Hawaii kindergarten records.”

    I have no knowledge of his draft registration, so I will not debate it. The topic here is whether or not Obama was ever an Indonesian citizen, which both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said is not true. However, a word about the kindergarten records: It is damn stupid to ask for them. Obama does not have them (How many people keep their kindergarten records) and probably even the kindergarten does not keep records from than many years ago. This and his college records are private, under law, which is a damn good thing. If you would like to pass a law saying that all future candidates school records should be open to the public, it is your right to try. But there is no such law now, and if you ask ALL the likely candidates for president in 2012, they all are likely to oppose it.

    Re: “as an explanation for him spending OUR money to have them sealed.”

    They are not sealed, so he didn’t spend OUR money on having them sealed. If you are referring to defending lawsuits against him, by far the overwhelming bulk of that money was from campaign funds, some of which I contributed, and I am glad, and there was never a case against Obama just for records. The bulk of cases by far were to stop the election or stop the Electoral College from voting. Obama opposed the cases that wanted to stop the election, and that is a good thing.

    Re: “In Muslim and oriental countries, childless men often adopt the sons of wives, the sons of deceased family members, or deceased friends.”

    First you said that the law was that the man had to acknowledge that the child was his. Then you said “adopted.” These are different things. There is no proof that either took place.

    Re: “, but I can only interprete this as the Indonesian law means that the child is an Indonesian citizen even if the original father was a foreigner, and insinuates that he has no rights to object under their law.”

    Since the Indonesian government says that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, your interpretation does not count for much. Besides, as you have noted, this applies only when the child was born outside of marriage. Obama’s mother and father were legally married, as their divorce records prove.

    Re: “IF the INDONESIAN man says the boy is his son than the boy is HIS son under the LAW! ”

    First, we have no proof that he ever said that. Second, it applies to his biological son. The man must claim that the child is really his. Third, it applies only when the child was born outside of marriage.

    Re: “We would know more if he hadn’t had all his records sealed to prevent us from discovering ????”

    The records are not sealed. They are private. The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

  43. ann1 says:

    Re: “Obama said in his book that his Step-Father adopted him.”

    Not that I remember. SHOW it. (Or admit you made it up.).

  44. ann1 says:

    The point my friends is that when both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (which, by the way was under Republicans until January 2009, so if there was evidence that Obama was an Indonesian citizen it would have found that out at the time and said something) BOTH say that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, then an unsigned school application and your interpretation of a law is not going to prove that it was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama said in his book that his Step-Father adopted him.”

    Not that I remember. SHOW it. (Or admit you made it up.).

    Re: “like his phony Certification of Birth. An “Official” birth certificate would be signed. So you wouldn’t accept an unsigned school application but you would accept an unsigned birth certificate. That certainly speaks volumes about your intelligence. Do you accept unsigned checks and contracts, too?”

    Obama’s Certification of Live Birth IS signed. It is signed on the back, where it is supposed to be. You will see both the signature and the raised seal on the back in the FactCheck photo. (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

    Re: “why Obama’s parents registered him as Barry Soetoro in Franciscus Assisi Primary School – a Roman Catholic school – as an Indonesian and named his religion as Islam. ”

    The answer was to get him into that school. However, there has been some reporting that the school at the time simply put in the religion of the father whenever someone applied to the school. (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/)

    Either way, the unsigned application does not prove that Obama was an Indonesian citizen or that he changed his name legally or that he was a Moslem. It doesn’t prove anything. However, it does say that Obama was born in Hawaii. To be sure, this doesn’t prove anything either, but if you regard it as a legal document in which the parents could not lie (which is not true), then you must accept as true that Obama was born in Hawaii. He was, of course, born in Hawaii, as the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed. This then would be additional confirmation.

    Re: “Of course there are no records of him being an Indonesian citizen. .oh wait – what were those records he had sealed? I forgot your answer.”

    Obama has not sealed any records. His birth certificate and college records are private. Most similar records in Indonesia are private too, I believe, but certainly Obama has not sealed them because he has no power to seal them. Nor do we have any evidence that he even tried. The point is, that you believe something without any proof based on weak speculation about foreigners not being able to attend school in Indonesia WHICH IS FACTUALLY WRONG.

    Re: “Hawaii kindergarten records.”

    I have no knowledge of his draft registration, so I will not debate it. The topic here is whether or not Obama was ever an Indonesian citizen, which both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said is not true. However, a word about the kindergarten records: It is damn stupid to ask for them. Obama does not have them (How many people keep their kindergarten records) and probably even the kindergarten does not keep records from than many years ago. This and his college records are private, under law, which is a damn good thing. If you would like to pass a law saying that all future candidates school records should be open to the public, it is your right to try. But there is no such law now, and if you ask ALL the likely candidates for president in 2012, they all are likely to oppose it.

    Re: “as an explanation for him spending OUR money to have them sealed.”

    They are not sealed, so he didn’t spend OUR money on having them sealed. If you are referring to defending lawsuits against him, by far the overwhelming bulk of that money was from campaign funds, some of which I contributed, and I am glad, and there was never a case against Obama just for records. The bulk of cases by far were to stop the election or stop the Electoral College from voting. Obama opposed the cases that wanted to stop the election, and that is a good thing.

    Re: “In Muslim and oriental countries, childless men often adopt the sons of wives, the sons of deceased family members, or deceased friends.”

    First you said that the law was that the man had to acknowledge that the child was his. Then you said “adopted.” These are different things. There is no proof that either took place.

    Re: “, but I can only interprete this as the Indonesian law means that the child is an Indonesian citizen even if the original father was a foreigner, and insinuates that he has no rights to object under their law.”

    Since the Indonesian government says that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, your interpretation does not count for much. Besides, as you have noted, this applies only when the child was born outside of marriage. Obama’s mother and father were legally married, as their divorce records prove.

    Re: “IF the INDONESIAN man says the boy is his son than the boy is HIS son under the LAW! ”

    First, we have no proof that he ever said that. Second, it applies to his biological son. The man must claim that the child is really his. Third, it applies only when the child was born outside of marriage.

    Re: “We would know more if he hadn’t had all his records sealed to prevent us from discovering ????”

    The records are not sealed. They are private. The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

  45. ann says:

    The point my friends is that when both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (which, by the way was under Republicans until January 2009, so if there was evidence that Obama was an Indonesian citizen it could have said that then) BOTH say that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, then an unsigned school application and your interpretation of a law is not going to prove that it was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Obama said in his book that his Step-Father adopted him.”

    Not that I remember. SHOW it. (Or admit you made it up.).

    Re: “like his phony Certification of Birth. An “Official” birth certificate would be signed. So you wouldn’t accept an unsigned school application but you would accept an unsigned birth certificate. That certainly speaks volumes about your intelligence. Do you accept unsigned checks and contracts, too?”

    Obama’s Certification of Live Birth IS signed. It is signed on the back, where it is supposed to be. You will see both the signature and the raised seal on the back in the FactCheck photo. (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

    Re: “why Obama’s parents registered him as Barry Soetoro in Franciscus Assisi Primary School – a Roman Catholic school – as an Indonesian and named his religion as Islam. ”

    The answer was to get him into that school. However, there has been some reporting that the school at the time simply put in the religion of the father whenever someone applied to the school. (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/)

    Either way, the unsigned application does not prove that Obama was an Indonesian citizen or that he changed his name legally or that he was a Moslem. It doesn’t prove anything. However, it does say that Obama was born in Hawaii. To be sure, this doesn’t prove anything either, but if you regard it as a legal document in which the parents could not lie (which is not true), then you must accept as true that Obama was born in Hawaii. He was, of course, born in Hawaii, as the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed. This then would be additional confirmation.

    Re: “Of course there are no records of him being an Indonesian citizen. .oh wait – what were those records he had sealed? I forgot your answer.”

    Obama has not sealed any records. His birth certificate and college records are private. Most similar records in Indonesia are private too, I believe, but certainly Obama has not sealed them because he has no power to seal them. Nor do we have any evidence that he even tried. The point is, that you believe something without any proof based on weak speculation about foreigners not being able to attend school in Indonesia WHICH IS FACTUALLY WRONG.

    Re: “Hawaii kindergarten records.”

    I have no knowledge of his draft registration, so I will not debate it. The topic here is whether or not Obama was ever an Indonesian citizen, which both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said is not true. However, a word about the kindergarten records: It is damn stupid to ask for them. Obama does not have them (How many people keep their kindergarten records) and probably even the kindergarten does not keep records from than many years ago. This and his college records are private, under law, which is a damn good thing. If you would like to pass a law saying that all future candidates school records should be open to the public, it is your right to try. But there is no such law now, and if you ask ALL the likely candidates for president in 2012, they all are likely to oppose it.

    Re: “as an explanation for him spending OUR money to have them sealed.”

    They are not sealed, so he didn’t spend OUR money on having them sealed. If you are referring to defending lawsuits against him, by far the overwhelming bulk of that money was from campaign funds, some of which I contributed, and I am glad, and there was never a case against Obama just for records. The bulk of cases by far were to stop the election or stop the Electoral College from voting. Obama opposed the cases that wanted to stop the election, and that is a good thing.

    Re: “In Muslim and oriental countries, childless men often adopt the sons of wives, the sons of deceased family members, or deceased friends.”

    First you said that the law was that the man had to acknowledge that the child was his. Then you said “adopted.” These are different things. There is no proof that either took place.

    Re: “, but I can only interprete this as the Indonesian law means that the child is an Indonesian citizen even if the original father was a foreigner, and insinuates that he has no rights to object under their law.”

    Since the Indonesian government says that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, your interpretation does not count for much. Besides, as you have noted, this applies only when the child was born outside of marriage. Obama’s mother and father were legally married, as their divorce records prove.

    Re: “IF the INDONESIAN man says the boy is his son than the boy is HIS son under the LAW! ”

    First, we have no proof that he ever said that. Second, it applies to his biological son. The man must claim that the child is really his. Third, it applies only when the child was born outside of marriage.

    Re: “We would know more if he hadn’t had all his records sealed to prevent us from discovering ????”

    The records are not sealed. They are private. The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

  46. ann2 says:

    Re: “Obama said in his book that his Step-Father adopted him.”

    Not that I remember. SHOW it. (Or admit you made it up.).

  47. ann2 says:

    The point my friends is that when both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (which, by the way was under Republicans until January 2009, so if there was evidence that Obama was an Indonesian citizen it could have said that then) BOTH say that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, then an unsigned school application and your interpretation of a law is not going to prove that it was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “like his phony Certification of Birth. An “Official” birth certificate would be signed. So you wouldn’t accept an unsigned school application but you would accept an unsigned birth certificate. That certainly speaks volumes about your intelligence. Do you accept unsigned checks and contracts, too?”

    Obama’s Certification of Live Birth IS signed. It is signed on the back, where it is supposed to be. You will see both the signature and the raised seal on the back in the FactCheck photo. (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

    Re: “why Obama’s parents registered him as Barry Soetoro in Franciscus Assisi Primary School – a Roman Catholic school – as an Indonesian and named his religion as Islam. ”

    The answer was to get him into that school. However, there has been some reporting that the school at the time simply put in the religion of the father whenever someone applied to the school. (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/)

    Either way, the unsigned application does not prove that Obama was an Indonesian citizen or that he changed his name legally or that he was a Moslem. It doesn’t prove anything. However, it does say that Obama was born in Hawaii. To be sure, this doesn’t prove anything either, but if you regard it as a legal document in which the parents could not lie (which is not true), then you must accept as true that Obama was born in Hawaii. He was, of course, born in Hawaii, as the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed. This then would be additional confirmation.

    Re: “Of course there are no records of him being an Indonesian citizen. .oh wait – what were those records he had sealed? I forgot your answer.”

    Obama has not sealed any records. His birth certificate and college records are private. Most similar records in Indonesia are private too, I believe, but certainly Obama has not sealed them because he has no power to seal them. Nor do we have any evidence that he even tried. The point is, that you believe something without any proof based on weak speculation about foreigners not being able to attend school in Indonesia WHICH IS FACTUALLY WRONG.

    Re: “Hawaii kindergarten records.”

    I have no knowledge of his draft registration, so I will not debate it. The topic here is whether or not Obama was ever an Indonesian citizen, which both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said is not true. However, a word about the kindergarten records: It is damn stupid to ask for them. Obama does not have them (How many people keep their kindergarten records) and probably even the kindergarten does not keep records from than many years ago. This and his college records are private, under law, which is a damn good thing. If you would like to pass a law saying that all future candidates school records should be open to the public, it is your right to try. But there is no such law now, and if you ask ALL the likely candidates for president in 2012, they all are likely to oppose it.

    Re: “as an explanation for him spending OUR money to have them sealed.”

    They are not sealed, so he didn’t spend OUR money on having them sealed. If you are referring to defending lawsuits against him, by far the overwhelming bulk of that money was from campaign funds, some of which I contributed, and I am glad, and there was never a case against Obama just for records. The bulk of cases by far were to stop the election or stop the Electoral College from voting. Obama opposed the cases that wanted to stop the election, and that is a good thing.

    Re: “In Muslim and oriental countries, childless men often adopt the sons of wives, the sons of deceased family members, or deceased friends.”

    First you said that the law was that the man had to acknowledge that the child was his. Then you said “adopted.” These are different things. There is no proof that either took place.

    Re: “, but I can only interprete this as the Indonesian law means that the child is an Indonesian citizen even if the original father was a foreigner, and insinuates that he has no rights to object under their law.”

    Since the Indonesian government says that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, your interpretation does not count for much. Besides, as you have noted, this applies only when the child was born outside of marriage. Obama’s mother and father were legally married, as their divorce records prove.

    Re: “IF the INDONESIAN man says the boy is his son than the boy is HIS son under the LAW! ”

    First, we have no proof that he ever said that. Second, it applies to his biological son. The man must claim that the child is really his. Third, it applies only when the child was born outside of marriage.

    Re: “We would know more if he hadn’t had all his records sealed to prevent us from discovering ????”

    The records are not sealed. They are private. The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

  48. Longknife 21 says:

    Ann
    Aren’t you really “smrstrauss”? Sound like it. Saying the same thing over and over does not make it true! Denial, without further evidence, is just denial. Go for it Cleopatra!

    Or maybe you are French, their military and political tactics go:
    1. Ignore 2. Deny 3.Run 4. Hide 5. Surrender 6. Collaborate

    Admit it! You want the Usurper in power for reasons of your own, not because he is competent, or even eligible. Figure out your reason and perhaps regain your sanity. Do these apply to you?:
    1.White Guilt 2.Rich Guilt 3.Black Rascist 4. Commie – Hate America
    5. Commie – Hate Capitalism 6. International Socialist 7. Greedy Elitist (and know who really owns him) 8. George Soros

    The truth will set you FREE!

  49. ann1 says:

    The point my friends is that when both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (which, by the way was under Republicans until January 2009, so if there was evidence that Obama was an Indonesian citizen it could have said that then) BOTH say that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen, then an unsigned school application and your interpretation of a law is not going to prove that it was an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “like his phony Certification of Birth. An “Official” birth certificate would be signed. So you wouldn’t accept an unsigned school application but you would accept an unsigned birth certificate. That certainly speaks volumes about your intelligence. Do you accept unsigned checks and contracts, too?”

    Obama’s Certification of Live Birth IS signed. It is signed on the back, where it is supposed to be. You will see both the signature and the raised seal on the back in the FactCheck photo. (http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html)

    Re: “why Obama’s parents registered him as Barry Soetoro in Franciscus Assisi Primary School – a Roman Catholic school – as an Indonesian and named his religion as Islam. ”

    The answer was to get him into that school. However, there has been some reporting that the school at the time simply put in the religion of the father whenever someone applied to the school. (http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2010/02/indonesian-school-explains-obamas-registration/)

    Either way, the unsigned application does not prove that Obama was an Indonesian citizen or that he changed his name legally or that he was a Moslem. It doesn’t prove anything. However, it does say that Obama was born in Hawaii. To be sure, this doesn’t prove anything either, but if you regard it as a legal document in which the parents could not lie (which is not true), then you must accept as true that Obama was born in Hawaii. He was, of course, born in Hawaii, as the officials in Hawaii have repeatedly confirmed. This then would be additional confirmation.

    Re: “Of course there are no records of him being an Indonesian citizen. .oh wait – what were those records he had sealed? I forgot your answer.”

    Obama has not sealed any records. His birth certificate and college records are private. Most similar records in Indonesia are private too, I believe, but certainly Obama has not sealed them because he has no power to seal them. Nor do we have any evidence that he even tried. The point is, that you believe something without any proof based on weak speculation about foreigners not being able to attend school in Indonesia WHICH IS FACTUALLY WRONG.

    Re: “Hawaii kindergarten records.”

    I have no knowledge of his draft registration, so I will not debate it. The topic here is whether or not Obama was ever an Indonesian citizen, which both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said is not true. However, a word about the kindergarten records: It is damn stupid to ask for them. Obama does not have them (How many people keep their kindergarten records) and probably even the kindergarten does not keep records from than many years ago. This and his college records are private, under law, which is a damn good thing. If you would like to pass a law saying that all future candidates school records should be open to the public, it is your right to try. But there is no such law now, and if you ask ALL the likely candidates for president in 2012, they all are likely to oppose it.

    Re: “as an explanation for him spending OUR money to have them sealed.”

    They are not sealed, so he didn’t spend OUR money on having them sealed. If you are referring to defending lawsuits against him, by far the overwhelming bulk of that money was from campaign funds, some of which I contributed, and I am glad, and there was never a case against Obama just for records. The bulk of cases by far were to stop the election or stop the Electoral College from voting. Obama opposed the cases that wanted to stop the election, and that is a good thing.

    Re: “In Muslim and oriental countries, childless men often adopt the sons of wives, the sons of deceased family members, or deceased friends.”

    First you said that the law was that the man had to acknowledge that the child was his. Then you said “adopted.” These are different things. There is no proof that either took place.

    Re: “, but I can only interprete this as the Indonesian law means that the child is an Indonesian citizen even if the original father was a foreigner, and insinuates that he has no rights to object under their law.”

    Since the Indonesian government says that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia, your interpretation does not count for much. Besides, as you have noted, this applies only when the child was born outside of marriage. Obama’s mother and father were legally married, as their divorce records prove.

    Re: “IF the INDONESIAN man says the boy is his son than the boy is HIS son under the LAW! ”

    First, we have no proof that he ever said that. Second, it applies to his biological son. The man must claim that the child is really his. Third, it applies only when the child was born outside of marriage.

    Re: “We would know more if he hadn’t had all his records sealed to prevent us from discovering ????”

    The records are not sealed. They are private. The unsigned application to a school in Indonesia proves nothing. There are reports that the schools simply put down the religion of the “father,” meaning in this case the step-father. There is no proof that Obama was ever adopted. He refers to his step-father consistently as his step-father in his writings, and so have reports from Indonesia. His name was never legally changed so he did not have to change it back. He was never an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department (in this legal filing http://www.scribd.com/full/17508463?access_key=key-1vg7c228ugapeqcnkki6) have said.

  50. zazzo says:

    Ann1
    Why are you belaboring on Obama’s school registration while ignoring the rest of the facts against him? OK – let’s give you this one and say all children in the world are welcome to attend school in Indonesia free. Does that make you feel better? It doesn’t explain why Obama’s parents registered him as Barry Soetoro in Franciscus Assisi Primary School – a Roman Catholic school – as an Indonesian and named his religion as Islam. Why would they claim him to be Islam if he wasn’t – especially when enrolling him in a Catholic school? We would know more if he hadn’t had all his records sealed to prevent us from discovering ???? what???? Why did he do that again? I’ve forgotten your answer.

    As far as the State Department saying Obama was never an Indonesian citizen – if they did say it – that is more BO BS. The State Department is headed by the Secretary of State who is none other than our own pillar of truth – Hillary Clinton. Two people have already told you it is impossible to prove a negative, so I guess she found that information on her dining room table along with the lost Rose Law Firm billing records. As two people here have already told you, it is impossible to prove a negative. So if the Indonesian government said Obama was never an Indonesian citizen even though he was/is, it is because that is one more fact they can use to blackmail him. You know – like drinking whiskey during prohibition. And don’t think for one minute they aren’t using it. Of course there are no records of him being an Indonesian citizen. .oh wait – what were those records he had sealed? I forgot your answer.

    You have never revealed your sources for all these facts you are so sure about. How about telling us where all this “factual” information comes from. MoveOn.org maybe?

    Twice you have mentioned the “unsigned application” to school. You don’t trust something that is unsigned? Oh right – like his phony Certification of Birth. An “Official” birth certificate would be signed. So you wouldn’t accept an unsigned school application but you would accept an unsigned birth certificate. That certainly speaks volumes about your intelligence. Do you accept unsigned checks and contracts, too?

    Chalk up the school issue as one point for you and move on to other things: His Selective Service Registration, his multiple Social Security numbers, his passport records, birth certificate, his parents’ marriage license, his adoption records, Penahou School records, Hawaii kindergarten records, Occidental College records, Columbia college records, Columbia thesis, Harvard College records, Harvard Law Review articles, Medical Records, Illinois State Senate records, Illinois State Senate schedule, Law practice client list, University of Chicago scholarly articles. Whew! For an honest, upstanding, patriotic American this guy is sure hiding a lot of stuff about himself! We learn more about a person on a first date.

    We all eagerly await your clarification of all these records as well as an explanation for him spending OUR money to have them sealed. But first – have you taken time to learn the difference between Natural Born, Native Born, and Naturalized? I hope you can find a knowledgeable person to help you (not a public school teacher – please). Please write again AFTER you have learned these three things.

  51. Longknife 21 says:

    Ann,
    No where in this law does it say “biological father” or “natural father”. Only the “father’ adopts the child as his ‘son’. In Muslim and oriental countries, childless men often adopt the sons of wives, the sons of deceased family members, or deceased friends.
    NOTE the last part of the law:
    “Children are deemed Indonesian citizens if they are born outside of legal marriage, have not yet reached age of 18 years, have not yet married and are legally acknowledged by father who has foreign citizenship.”
    Perhaps something is lost in the translation to English, but I can only interprete this as the Indonesian law means that the child is an Indonesian citizen even if the original father was a foreigner, and insinuates that he has no rights to object under their law. IF the INDONESIAN man says the boy is his son than the boy is HIS son under the LAW! Period! Has been restated several ways throughout the law.

    The problem here is the Lefty/Libs have added a new definition to ‘interprete’: “4. to change.” You might can get away with it in the Beltway and some commie-controlled Federal Courts, but the American People are sick of it. We have a bunch of blowhard Marxists “interpreting the Constitution” into something completely different that what it meant, and still means for the majority of Americans, especially those that fought, and bleed, and those that lost family and friends, to defend it. Your Usurper is a False Messiah, and he is going down, hopefully taking the whole International Socialist Totalitarian Federalist Democrat Party with him!
    They stole the Democrat Party from us real Americans, we must build a new Constitutional Party, because we know we can’t trust the Repubs!

  52. tpgow says:

    ANN:
    Further to that. Not only did Soetoro not acknowledge Obama as his biological child,

    What don’t you understand? Obama said in his book that his Step-Father adopted him. We are not making the articles up. They are by legal law firms that have proof if they can get it in court. It is a big cover up by the Dems and Repukes, because when proved they will all go down, the whole US congress mostly Pee Louseie. Open up your mind and stop refuting everthing when you can show no proof other wise. If he had a legal BC he would have showed it with hospital and time of birth. In the 60’s the BC he showed was given to all foreign children living in HI.
    He says in his book his step-father adopted him and he used Barry Soetoro as a child in Indonesia. He also traveled to Pakastian with a fellow collage friend. US was not letting US citizens travel to Pakastian at that time. There were travel restrictions on Americans. The only way he could have gone was on Indonesioan Passport. That is another thing he wrote about. I have a video of Maxine Waters on Tape saying he was born in Keyna. What more is needed? Just our government to stop the cover up. It would bring the country down. But it would be no worse than what he is all ready doing. I suggest you Buy “Dreams of my Father”
    read it then come back and try to make your point. This is not about Rep, dem. black or white it is about truth that can be proven. I think you should open your mind and eyes. Truth will set you free. or move on to Moveon.org. where the obots are.

  53. ann1 says:

    Re: “Children are deemed Indonesian citizens if they are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who is acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his child and that acknowledgment is made prior to child reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage.”

    Further to that. Not only did Soetoro not acknowledge Obama as his biological child, it looks like the person acknowledged by the father in this case is the mother of the child. That is what it says “mother who is acknowledged by father.” The meaning is that a foreign mother can still give birth to an Indonesian child so long as the birth was outside of marriage and an Indonesian man was her father.

    Stanley was not born outside of marriage and no Indonesian ever acknowledged her as being his biological offspring.

  54. ann1 says:

    Re: “acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his child.”

    That means that the father has acknowledged that the child is his biological offspring. HIS child from his sperm.

    There is absolutely no evidence that Obama’s stepfather ever acknowledged Obama as his child because he wasn’t his child. Obama did not look like his stepfather.

    Moreover, if as you say the statement by the father acknowledging the child is sufficient to generate Indonesian citizenship, there has to be a document sent to the government saying that there was an acknowledgement, and no such document has been found.

    Finally, the Indonesian government says that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

    I notice you did not show any law that says that it was illegal for foreigners to attend school in Indonesia.

  55. Longknife 21 says:

    Perhaps this can settle this:

    1 Asian Law Digests INDONESIA LAW DIGEST 13.04

    13.04 INFANTS

    Citizenship Matters.

    Children are deemed Indonesian citizens if they are born outside of legal marriage from foreign State citizen mother who is acknowledged by father who is Indonesian State citizen as his child and that acknowledgment is made prior to child reaching 18 years of age or prior to marriage. Children are deemed Indonesian citizens if they are born outside of legal marriage, have not yet reached age of 18 years, have not yet married and are legally acknowledged by father who has foreign citizenship.

    The other parts gave some room for argument that they would apply if the Indonesian Adoptive father was the biological father. This part clearly states they are Indonesian Citizens if acknowledged by Indonesian father even if “legally acknowledged by father who has foreign citizenship”.
    Notice there is no necessity for a court order. If the man claims he adopts the child, the child is Indonesian. We are a litigigious society (courts required to do anything) most are not, especially third-world.
    Little Barry was certainly under 18 and unmarried, so it must legally apply!

    By! By!, Usurper! If we can find a court with cojones enough to even discuss it!

    SO Solly, O-bot! You ruse! Round-eye Melican infidel!

  56. Longknife 21 says:

    Suggestions for Citizenship Law
    1. Natural Born Citizen – Born in US Jurisdiction. Both parents US citizens, NO DUAL CITIZENSHIP! Only classification Eligible to be president!
    2. Native Born Citizen – Born in US Jurisdiction Both parents legal residents, or one a citizen.
    3. Citizen Born Abroad – Born to at least 1 US Citizen parent overseas, but still subject to application between 18 and 21.
    4. Naturalized Citizen – Citizen by application and completing requirements as required by law.
    5. Non-citizens – Children born to Diplomats, Tourists, or other persons not legal residents are citizens of their Father’s country, if married, or their Mother’s country if unmarried. Subject to deportation, when mother able to travel. No citizenship, no “rights” to Gov’t assistance.

    Obama has provided us with the perfect example of why our Forefathers insisted on only a Natural Born Citizen, with no loyalty to any foreign country or culture could be eligible for the Presidency.
    It is time to face the fact that Illegal Aliens are in defiance of US Jurisdiction and are certainly not ‘under’ it, so it is illogical, as well as destructive to the good order of the Nation, for their children to be considered Native Born or citizens of any kind. Their accident-of-birth here is the result of an economic invasion against the laws, and should not be rewarded, but punished.
    The Lefty/Lib lunacy is fed by big money that exploit these poor people while the tax-payers are stuck with the bill for ‘social services’ while the Exploiters are getting away with not paying fair wages to tax-paying Citizens. The unemployed poor should be having a FIT over this, but the Elite borrow and print money to pay ‘unemployment benefits’. They are destroying our economy, our currency, and our Nation to save a few bucks on payroll!
    Wake up America! The Libtards and the Elites are selling you and your children into debt slavery, and you won’t even speak out against it!
    Political-Correctness is a mental disease, and can be fatal!
    If the Gov’t quits paying people not to work, and the Illegal Alien Invasion is stopped, and the idiot Gov’t Bureaucrats get out of the way, Employers will have to pay fair wages and people will have to work for their paychecks, and then maybe we can throw these meddling, crooked, SOBs out of office!

  57. Rick M. says:

    Hey Ann aside from all this indonesian stuff… why hasn’t Obama produced a “valid” Birth Certificate you know the long form.. and what about all those other records from college etc…. come on you shouldn’t bullshit a bullshiter!

  58. Longknife 21 says:

    The WSJ is so screwed. The Libtards have even tried to ruin the legal definition of “Native born”. Even the framers of the 14th Amendment specifically mentioned that diplomats and ‘aliens’ were not under US Jurisdiction and their children did not have and right to citizenship at all, period. Since illegal aliens are technically invaders in defiance of US JURISDICTION they are certainly not ‘under’ it. Therefor children of illegals DO NOT get citizenship under the 14th Amendment! Liberal activists judges and other Libtards have twisted the law to create a new block of welfare clients. Jimmy Carter was the idiot responsible for making illegals equal with American citizens for welfare, if I remember correctly.
    There was a Senator Johnson that wrote extensively at the time of the 14th Am. ratification about diplomats’ and aliens’ children not being born citizens.
    The Lefty/Libs have intentionally confused this issue to the point there needs to be a detailed law. More Later,gotta feed the critters.

  59. ann1 says:

    Re: “(all citizens of Indonesia have a right to education)”

    You quote a law that says that all citizens of Indonesia have a right to an education. You do not quote any law that says that foreign students cannot attend public school. And, the spokesman for the Indonesian Embassy says that he attended public school in the 1970s, and there were foreign students attending the school.

    Moreover, you cite a law as if it logically had to affect the situation. It doesn’t. During Prohibition it was illegal to get a drink at a bar. If you think that this meant that no one in the USA got a drink at a bar, you are obviously wrong. People broke the law.

    So, if there were a law (and you have not actually quoted the law saying “no foreigner shall attend public school,” the fact that some people obviously attended public school in Indonesia is explained by (1) you not being right on the law; or, (2) that it was possible to break the law and get away with it.

    In any case, your speculation about schools in Indonesia does not overcome the fact that BOTH Indonesia and the US State Department in a legal filing have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

    Re: Records have been found that “clearly state (in Indonesian) that Barry Soetoro was registered as an Indonesian citizen.”

    This is an unsigned application to a private school. Do parents lie sometimes to get their kids into the right schools? Answer: Yes.

    Therefore, the unsigned school application in no way affects the facts that both Indonesia and the US State Department have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

  60. zazzo says:

    Ann1
    You have overlooked the most important fact in this argument: A NATURAL BORN citizen is one born on US soil of parents who are US citizens. The key word is parents – plural. This fact was reaffirmed by Resolution 511. If you aren’t familiar with this then you need to read it. It clearly states parents – plural – and was signed by Obama. The definition of NATURAL born has been defined by no less than four supreme court cases. It is indisputable – a fact. It cannot be changed. It is what it is. The other fact you have ignored is the fact that Obama has declared on several occasions that his father was a British subject and was never any kind of US citizen. Those two facts together automatically disqualify Obama from holding the office of POTUS. These facts cannot be argued or altered – they are written in stone.

    The first thing you need to do is learn the difference between NATURAL born, NATIVE born, and NATURALIZED. Three separate classifications of citizenship, and until you know the correct definition of all three you cannot correctly identify anyone’s status. Why would there be three classifications if they all meant the same thing? It is believing all three are the same that is classic “daft or dishonest” thinking. Most people do not know the differences, or they don’t want to recognize them because interchanging them reinforces their incorrect argument. Black’s Law Dictionary does not have the knowledge or authority to decide the definition of “Natural Born” citizen; however, the Supreme Court does have that authority, and has done so several times. Perhaps you can find an educated person to explain the SC rulings and help you understand the reasoning behind this important distinction and requirement.

    Next you need to realize that just because Orrin Hatch, Lindsey Graham, the Wall St Journal or anyone else said something does not make it true, particularly when they reference no sources. They, like so many others (including you) have failed to differentiate between NATURAL born and NATIVE born. Do not accept their ignorance or fabrication of fact as truth.

    Obama has never produced an OFFICIAL birth certificate from Hawaii or any place else. He has produced three different versions of a computer-generated certificate which, if any one was genuine, only says that he was born and that there is a genuine birth certificate on file. The state of Hawaii NEVER confirmed that he was born in Hawaii, nor have they confirmed that the documents released by Obama are genuine. They have only confirmed they have a vault birth certificate on file. Go back and carefully read what the DoH has said about the document(s) Obama has produced. The document Obama produced is worthless since that Certification of Birth was issued by Hawaii at random to anyone who asked for it without proof of birth place. It, in itself, proves nothing. If you do a little research you will find the documents produced by Obama have been PhotoShopped and are a complete fraud as sworn to by three experts. The fact that there are three different “official” documents proves that. No, it is not absolute proof, but more than enough to warrant an investigation.

    Neither Obama nor anyone else has ever produced even a shred of evidence he is eligible to be POTUS. You say he has? Where is it? However, there is a mountain of evidence that says he is not eligible, that he is a common criminal, and there should be an investigation. People have been executed on less evidence.

    The only “bad memory” you refer to is your own. There were several lawsuits before the election, but many more have been filed since asking for proof of eligibility. In addition to nearly $1 million before the election, Obama has spent well over $1 million SINCE the election hiding the facts of his past. Nobody wanted to stop the election or anything else – they just wanted Obama to either prove his eligibility or have his name removed from the ballot.

    The law required students in public school to be Indonesian citizens. Unlike America, the Indonesian government did not pay to educate foreigners. You said, “You probably have the law wrong.” No, he does not have the law wrong – you have the facts wrong. Other students who were not Indonesian citizens attended private schools – Obama attended PUBLIC school. You must pay attention to details of what is said or written if you want to avoid being misled, confused and wrong since that is often the intention of the author.

    When did the Indonesian government ever say Obama was never a citizen? The Indonesian government has never issued a statement about Obama’s citizenship or non citizenship status because all those records were sealed by Obama. If Obama was not born in Kenya or was never a citizen of that country or of Indonesia, then what records did he have sealed and why has he issued gag orders on everyone from there? He didn’t seal his records from Japan, Australia, or any other country – only from Kenya and Indonesia. Please – give us one plausible explanation for doing that.

    I fail to see even a remote connection between drinking whiskey during prohibition and Obama’s birth status.

    No, there is no proof that Obama was not born in Hawaii because technically it is impossible to prove a negative. But it is possible to prove he was born somewhere else, and that is what we are trying to do.

    Ann, your letter is so full of misinformation it would take a book to refute each statement. This letter is already much too long, and I haven’t even touched on the other issues that incriminate Obama as being a fraud. You have merely touched the tip of one of these issues. After you have done enough serious research to know the facts, write to us again. When selecting and evaluating your sources, remember that those who cherry pick their information are choosing to remain ignorant. Obama is counting on you to do exactly that.

  61. Longknife 21 says:

    Ann1
    Your first argument above is fraudulent. The law is quoted and explained in the above article.
    Your second one is also wrong. Student records/reports have been found and published on the Internet that clearly state (in Indonesian) that Barry Soetoro was registered as an Indonesian citizen and furthermore, his religion was Muslim! These have been denied by a few Obots, but officially ignored, and never refuted. They appear to be true and original. Unlike the photoshopped COLB. I don’t understand why you stress un-signed.?.

  62. tpgow says:

    Keep drinking Kool Ade Ann . Thanks for playing.

  63. tpgow says:

    Ann: even if you are right and he was not an Idonesian citzen, By his own words in “Dreams of My father” His father was a british subject. That makes Obama inelegiable to hold the highest office in the USA. He is a usurper no matter how you look at it. If you look at what can be proved he attended a mattrasa in Indonesian and said the call to pray was the prettiest sound he ever heard. Plus his stepfather adopted him, That gave him Indonesian citizenship. You can not have duel citizenship in the USA and be president. He is a phony fake and marxist to boot. There is plenty of proof. You should seek the truth and stop with the phony BS you can’t win. You need to go to “Move On . Org. All the obots will agree with you. True patriots won’t. The truth will set you free.

  64. Longknife 21 says:

    Back again, full of beans and rice!
    You are arguing against 200 years of law and Supreme Court decisions. But I know that doesn’t bother True-Believer Obots in the least. On the off chance you are remotely rational, and thereby salvagable, I suggest you:
    1. Visit todays http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamasLatest.htm and look at Natural Born Citizen – Four Cases.
    2. http://www.scribd.com/doc/11737124/Citizenship-Terms-Used-in-the-US-Constitution-The 5-Terms Defined-Some Legal-Referances-to-Same. These references to Native Born used to assume legal resident parents (living under US jurisdiction) with intention to become citizens, and excluded Diplomat parents (no intention to become US citizens-no US jurisdiction) by law. Therefor, illegal aliens’ children, in defiance of US Jurisdiction, should also be excluded.
    Many more are available. Plus Supreme Court Decisions.
    Therefor: “The Wall Street Journal put it this way:

    “Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning.”

    Is a fool’s opinion at best, a damnable lie, and Treasonous at worst! A newspaper article is opinion, not documentatation or evidence.
    Furthermore a phoney COLB (which Obama was smart enough not to publicly claim), proves nothing other than Obamunists are willing to lie and present false ‘evidence’.
    Please try to document your points in the future, with something factual and provable. Also I would appreciate it if you would limit your rebuttals to one or two points, with documentation please. Not blanket denials, rants, and un-documented alleged newspaper articles, none of which have any evidentuary value.
    The Courts want us Constitutionalists (which you insultingly call Birthers) to try to prove a negative (Obama absolutely was not born in Hawaii), which any first-year law student knows is impossible (especially with the Usurper’s defense denying any discovery). But you want us to accept a newspaper opinion as fact?! After 2 years of studing this character (I originally thought he might be an acceptable alternative to Hillary, I abhor the Neo-Con Repukes), I am convinced anyone who will still defend him is a Welfare Momma, an over-educated and under-experienced International/Socialist, a running-dumb TV-brainwashed fool, or some combination of the above. Or perhaps you are paid to make these arguments? Lawyer or Traitor. I hope I’m wrong.

  65. Longknife 21 says:

    Opinions are not Documentation, no matter how much you want it to be.
    Repukes and Elitist newspapers are maybe better than MoveOn.org, but not much. Ruth Bader Ginsberg says her grandson, born in Paris of American citizens, is a Natural Born Citizen! Where does it end with Lefty/Libs. Now you can say that a child born of illegal aliens, pooped out this side of the fence is Natural Born Citizen? Get a grip!
    Gotta go eat. Later.

  66. ann1 says:

    Re: “Indonesian law at the time required little Barry to be an Indonesian citizen to attend public school.”

    You probably have the law wrong. The spokesman for the Indonesian embassy in Washington says that he attended public school in Indonesia in the 1970s and that there were also foreign students at the school. In any case BOTH the Indonesian government and the US State Department have said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.

    Re: “Lolo and Stanley Ann represented Barry as being his adopted son at that time, and believed it to be true by then existing law.”

    And I know some people who actually drank whiskey during Prohibition. You are referring to an UNSIGNED statement to a private school. As for them believing it, you are speculating.

    Re “millions spent.”

    You have a very poor memory. Virtually all the lawsuits before the election were to stop the election. Virtually all the lawsuits after the election were to stop the Electoral College from voting, stop the Congress from certifying the election or stop the Inauguration.

    Re: “Without some proving documentation, Soetoro/Obama did not correct his citizenship by Naturalization…”

    He was NEVER an Indonesian citizen, as both the Indonesian government and the US State Department have said. He NEVER lost US citizenship (and he couldn’t), so he did not need to correct anything.

    Re: “If you believe that gov’t refusal (US or Indonesian) to release documents…”

    You in contrast believe something without any evidence whatsoever.

    Re: “F Obama was born in Hawaii (HIGHLY doubtful, or it would have been proven by now).

    It has been proven. Obama posted the OFFICIAL birth certificate of Hawaii, and the facts on it–that he was born in Hawaii in 1961–have been confirmed twice by the officials in Hawaii, who are members of a Republican governor’s administration.

    The Wall Street Journal commented: “Obama has already provided a legal birth certificate demonstrating that he was born in Hawaii. No one has produced any serious evidence to the contrary. Absent such evidence, it is unreasonable to deny that Obama has met the burden of proof. We know that he was born in Honolulu as surely as we know that Bill Clinton was born in Hope, Ark., or George W. Bush in New Haven, Conn.”

    Re: Natural Born Citizen. Merely being born in the USA makes one a natural born citizen (so long as you are a citizen, of course). The citizenship of the parents has no effect.

    The definition of Natural Born Citizen is:

    ““Natural born citizen. Persons who are born within the jurisdiction of a national government, i.e. in its territorial limits, or those born of citizens temporarily residing abroad.” — Black’s Law Dictionary, Sixth Edition.”

    All US-born citizens are Natural Born Citizens. That is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

    Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

    “Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

    Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

    “What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004

    The Wall Street Journal put it this way:

    “Some birthers imagine that there is a difference between being a “citizen by birth” or a “native citizen” on the one hand and a “natural born” citizen on the other. “Eccentric” is too kind a word for this notion, which is either daft or dishonest. All three terms are identical in meaning.”

  67. Longknife 21 says:

    Documentation and source, please.
    A filing is usually just a statement a lawyer wants the Court to believe, not real ‘evidence’ or even necessarily true.
    Someone, somewhere, in the Indonesian Gov’t can be bought to say almost anything. Unfortunately Washington is no better!

  68. Longknife 21 says:

    Documentation and source please. MoveOn.org & Fact Check are full of PELOSI!, obviously don’t count. Real documentation or you are suspect of being ‘full of PELOSI!’ also.

  69. Longknife 21 says:

    A legal filing is simply something that bunch of lawyers want the Court to recognize.
    Indonesian law at the time required little Barry to be an Indonesian citizen to attend public school. Non-citizen children attended Catholic or other private schools. Lolo and Stanley Ann represented Barry as being his adopted son at that time, and believed it to be true by then existing law.
    Of course, ignoring, denying, or changing their interpretation of the law is ‘normal procedure’ for Barry and Stanley Ann.
    Over a $Million have been spent by the Obama campaign, and untold Millions in Gov’t aid given to suppress the release of gov’t documents, including passport info.
    You want to believe your Messiah? Go for it, but is your faith, not facts that support it. The evidence collected indicates a huge effort to suppress, deny, even destroy documents that normal people must have for everyday life. Stanley Ann and Barry should have a tremendous paper trail, but little remains or can be discovered. How did little Barry get through Immigration on his return from Indonesia? A half-breed Black kid coming from a half-Commie country in 1971 would have attracted some attention.
    If you believe that gov’t refusal (US or Indonesian) to release documents, especially in this case, means that the documents don’t exist, then you desperately need the Plexiglas navel implant so you don’t bump into something and hurt yourself!
    Again, you believe whatever you want to believe. But the provable documented evidence does not support your argument. Nor does a look at the law as it existed at that time. MoveOn.org and Fight the Smears are not your friends, no matter how much you may wish them to be.

  70. ann1 says:

    Both the US State Department in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

    There is no proof of his being adopted, which requires the action of a district court in Indonesia. He used his stepfather’s last name, but he never changed his name legally.

  71. ann1 says:

    Obama never had an Indonesian passport because he was never an Indonesian citizen, as both Indonesia and the US State Department have said.

  72. ann1 says:

    Both the US government in a legal filing and the Indonesian government have said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

  73. Longknife 21 says:

    BadFiction is exactly that! They ignore the part about ‘affirmative acts’ both on the parts of Stanley Ann and Barry.
    The most probable truth is that Stanley Ann and Barry saw an easy a cheap way for Barry to get a taxpayer paid college education by applying as an Indonesian student. So he kept the Indonesian Passport. Barry/Barack wanted to travel with his Muslim friends and could do so easier with an Indonesian Passport and renewed it after age 18. He ‘affirmed’ his Indonesian citizenship because it suited his purpose at THAT TIME. No thought for the future consequiences. A trait he has displayed throughout his adult life. And his solution is the same- Lie! DENY!! and use political power and allies to cover up!!! He has the Democrat Party, beaucoup money, Powerful political law firms, cowardly and activist judges, and the Lap-dog Media on his side. They want to change the Constitution and the law, and by Lucifer and Beelzebub, they are gonna do it! and get away with it!!

  74. Longknife 21 says:

    Lynn,
    The title you are using is misleading. This article was posted by Phil Berg on Obama Crimes. He used this title because it is to rebut the false info given out by BadFiction, obviously an O-bot site. BadFiction is trying to deny that little Barry being adopted does not necessarily destroy his US citizenship, but they don’t tell all or interprete the laws correctly. Mr. Berg is explaining where they made mistakes (or more likely, tried to spin the facts and the law)
    Without some proving documentation, Soetoro/Obama did not correct his citizenship by Naturalization, and therefore is technically an illegal alien. Even if he did correct his citizenship by Naturalization, his citizenship by Natural Born Citizen (if he ever had it, which he didn’t) was irrevocably destroyed.

    IF Obama was born in Hawaii (HIGHLY doubtful, or it would have been proven by now) he could at best been a Native Born Citizen through the citizenship of his mother Stanley Ann Dunham. Her legal citizenship status is questioned by the fact she had not lived in the United States the required time since age 15.
    Obama was born a British and Kenyan citizen through his father, where ever born. If his mother was adjudicated a legal citizen (she simply was not old enough) he would be dual citizen at birth. NOT a Natural Born Citizen – Both parents Citizens, born in the US. When his mother was old enough, if she stayed in the US, to become a legal citizen, he would have been easily Naturalized.
    Obama’s US citizenship (if any) was destroyed by his adoption by Lolo Soetoro. However legal remedies were available. One he willfully destroyed by keeping his Indonesian Passport after age 18, and the other he failed to use by not applying for Naturalization before age 25.
    From the true legal documentation available to the public, Barack H. Obama does NOT have any US Citizenship:
    Natural Born Citizen- Impossible, father was British/Kenyan
    Native Born Citizen- Doubtful, but destroyed. Does not qualify for Pres.
    Naturalized- No evidence of ever applying.

  75. 19red46 says:

    This Article was posted on Obama Crimes.com at http://obamacrimes.com/?=376 it was in answer to and to rebut the false conclusions of BadFiction.

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